[Tambohamilton]

Every night I can't wait until my son goes to sleep, so I can get some peace/free time. And as soon as he's asleep I could just sit and watch him for hours, quite happily. They're frustrating creatures!

[Alfisti]

Modern parenting is hard, we pay a lot of attention to our kids and they don't spend enough time with other kids so the parents get absolutely crushed. It's our own fault though.

My personal time is 9pm to 1030pm, 4 nights a week. I play Gran Turimo online and that's how I unwind. Well until the inevitable brazilian goes all kamikazee on me, they really have no idea how to race but are blindingly quick.

This is only new, until the youngest is about 3 to 4, you get no peace, none.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

OK that's worse than it sounds, this is not about sex, she's just shut down.

It may just be the mundanity of family life has hit her, she may not even know it. Kids now front and centre and she doesn't have the energy to be connect. Has her body shape changed, women get pretty sensitive about that and can go quiet.

Either way, poster above was right, it's something in her head.

Yeah, spot on man, spot on.

Tambohamilton, this is about her, not you. You're doing all the right things from what I can see. You're reaching out to her trying to connect, you're expressing your feelings and emotions, you're even in counseling for yourself.

I have some close friends going though a divorce that was spurred by a similar situation. The wife was terrified of the husband leaving but at the same time was unable and unwilling to give him the emotional and physical attention he was very clearly and patiently expressing a need for. They were going to couples counseling and he was seeing someone for one on one counseling. Bottom line, she has some deep rooted emotional issues she's never faced and dealt with from childhood. She's terrified to face them and has elected to shut down and just retreat from her husband and their marriage, instead of going through the pain of addressing what she tried to burry years ago. She got on anti-depressants and made some small changes here and there but ultimately couldn't do the real work and its now all falling apart. He's moved out. Formal divorce papers being drafted. it really sucks. They were together for 30 years. We've all been friends since highschool.

Anyway, bottom line, your partner not being able to bring herself to even give you a hug is 100,000% about her, not you. Think about that for a moment. She cant even give you a hug when you tell her you need one? I mean, I could see some random person on the sidewalk who looked sad and if they said "Hey, I just need a hug", well sure thing, here you go buddy hope you feel better. It literally takes nothing to give someone a hug. So assuming there's not something you're not telling us like she discovered you're secretly a mass murder, this definitely is centered in her head.

[Tambohamilton]

Thanks for the counselling everyone - really.

I can't claim to be a saint at all, but I don't think I'm a bad guy. I've done nothing 'wrong' in this relationship - no cheating or anything like that. Well, she wants to stay with me and she specifically wanted me to be the father of her children (I literally asked her that when she wanted to have another), so I can't be terrible in her view.

Her childhood was her halcyon days - she loves to go back to her parents house etc... I can't see that there's anything traumatic there. Maybe that's the problem!? I've thought about what the problem might be a lot (too much!) and can reach no conclusion.

That's my thoughts exactly about the situation - I could have got a hug from almost anyone (pre-pandemic) if I was to ask, but she didn't want to. I get on better with my friends, and at times I've got more affection from them too...just not in any sort of romantic way. Hell, I'm getting more support from you good people who I've never met, or even seen!

I really hope I can help/persuade her to get whatever help she needs. But her solution to feeling bad is to withdraw. She hasn't talked to anyone about our relationship problems, that I know of, for example. I talk to anyone who will listen

I still think she's an amazing person...I just missed/ignored any warning signs early on I guess.

I hope your friends are managing to part ways peacefully. Got to be painful for them and awkward for you.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Thanks for the counselling everyone - really.

I can't claim to be a saint at all, but I don't think I'm a bad guy. I've done nothing 'wrong' in this relationship - no cheating or anything like that. Well, she wants to stay with me and she specifically wanted me to be the father of her children (I literally asked her that when she wanted to have another), so I can't be terrible in her view.

Her childhood was her halcyon days - she loves to go back to her parents house etc... I can't see that there's anything traumatic there. Maybe that's the problem!? I've thought about what the problem might be a lot (too much!) and can reach no conclusion.

That's my thoughts exactly about the situation - I could have got a hug from almost anyone (pre-pandemic) if I was to ask, but she didn't want to. I get on better with my friends, and at times I've got more affection from them too...just not in any sort of romantic way. Hell, I'm getting more support from you good people who I've never met, or even seen!

I really hope I can help/persuade her to get whatever help she needs. But her solution to feeling bad is to withdraw. She hasn't talked to anyone about our relationship problems, that I know of, for example. I talk to anyone who will listen

I still think she's an amazing person...I just missed/ignored any warning signs early on I guess.

I hope your friends are managing to part ways peacefully. Got to be painful for them and awkward for you.

How was the sex pre children? Post partum is a real thing and it does pretty crazy stuff. If you've noticed a distinct change pre and post kids in your sex life, I'd start there maybe. And if you didn't....why did you stay?? Whatever made you stay is likely what should keep you now. But I think you should stay for the kids sake. These are formative years.


Edit: Also, what would / has she said about you getting that desire filled by someone else? I'm not suggesting that, mind you, actually, I wouldn't suggest that, but curious what she would say. If she isn't physically attracted to you, what would be her reason for not wanting you to get that filled by another woman? Maybe she does actually care for you, but its this post partum crap that is screwing with her head.

To re-emphasize - do not go to another woman. More just curious why she wouldn't like it.

[Tambohamilton]

The sex early on was great. But tailed off fast. Not much change pre/post kids. It's just been a gradual transition to where we are now really. Only major event that I feel had an effect was when her parents discussed selling their house (where she grew up) - that was a step change for the worse, but I wanted to support her through that, with the assumption that everything would get better again. That's all I've been doing for years really - hanging on in the hope that things will get better. It's in the last few months that I've learned and realised that things won't, or at least are very unlikely to, get back to how they were in the early days. That has made me feel trapped and more than a little hopeless...

Like I say, I do think she's awesome, but it's the kids that are keeping me here now. Without them, I'd be out of here, definitely. I need to get back to believing we can fix this, otherwise I'll probably end up being pretty grumpy etc...I don't want that.

[Alfisti]

Difficult question, how's she handle the kid, is parenting crushing her and she leans on you heavily or she tackles it easily?

I ask as you are posting messages that feel like she is going to be a handful as she cannot handle life's challenges and you're gonna haver to carry the family and/or deal with the fall out of her feeling overwhealmed.

[Tambohamilton]

No; shes a great mum...much more patient than me. She generally gets through life fine, but I also get the impression she struggles with motivation etc similar to me. She has said in the past that she's probably had undiagnosed depression. But last I asked she felt 'fine'...which of course is most likely to mean not fine, in my experience.

I guess the reason why I'm daunted by anything happening is that she bottles stuff up and withdraws and goes quiet when bad things happen. She didn't talk to her parents for a year after they mentioned selling their house - just 'couldnt face it'. I mean, all she needed to say was 'please don't do that; I really need this house as my safe place and I don't know where I'd go if I couldnt go there'. But instead it was zero communication for a year. She's normally very rational though, which is something I really like about her!

[ragingpanda]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The reality of parental responsibility can be confronting, i know at times, i mean i love my kids, but man, would honestly do anything for a week to myself, just alone.

There is nothing better than peace and silence.

[Bunnny]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Yes, I think it's something relating to the mundanity/familiarity/etc of normal life. Her body hasn't changed very much, I don't think, but it's possible that there's something that bothers her there. Honestly, I think she suffers from depression a bit - similar to me. She spends too much of her day scrolling through the internet, IMO...just lost her spark a fair bit.

Have you grabbed her phone on her?
Im not trying to suggest this is a healthy thing to do, but do you suspect she is cheating some how?
What makes me say this is the internet provides easy access for this crap, and depression with instant gratification from someone else can be addicting on its own.

[Tambohamilton]

I don't think so, no. If I was concerned about that, there are other ways I could check internet activity...but I don't feel the need. I hope I'm not wrong there, but she's always been very strongly against cheating - she was cheated on before.

[XutvJet]

One word: Perimenopause

My wife and I have been together since 1995 and married in 1999. We have a 16 y/o and a 12 y/o. I'm 46 and she's 45.

Back in October 2017 (she's 42 at the time), she confided in me that she might want something "different", possibilby a divorce. She said she hadn't been sexually interested for a few months and thought it might be a sign as the feeling (or lack thereof) might indicate it was time to move on. This made her quite distraught as she came from a divorced home and she still suffered from the seperation anxiety of her dad leaving when she 5; a dad she was very close with and one that died in 2009 of a massive heart attack. When she told me her feelings, I was completely blindsided and so damn confused.

For the next month, I was walking on egg shells and thinking deeply about how things could have gone so wrong. I was so confused and sad. Then I started thinking back to about a year or so earlier, when she started getting night sweats, having a hard time sleeping, and her period becoming erratic. I did note a minor mood chnage with her, but nothing alarmingly to me. I did some researching and stumbled across "perimenopause". I had heard of menopause, but not perimenopause which is what leads into menopuase. During this time, a woman goes through some pretty significant hormone changes as they transition to menopause. For some woman, the hormone imbalance can get really wonky. This can lead to confusion, exhaustion, depression, wild changes in rational thought, becoming self-centered, seeking complete independence, wanting a major life change, becoming very testy with small things, seeing relationships as confining, thoughts of divorce, and so on. More women get divorced during this time in their lives (35 to 50) than any other point. Perimenopause is believed to be the result of many divorces as the woman thinks she wants something different and the man is confused, becomes angry, and figures she's just "crazy". The real kicker is some women hardly experience any affects and some experience severe affects. My wife is text book. Even worse, for some women, perimenopause can last up to 10 years. Yikes!

I didn't bring any of this up to my wife at first as I didn't want to rock the boat. About 2 months in, she would say she felt like she was going crazy and would lose track of her thoughts and focus. I asked her if had heard of perimenopause and its effects. She said she did but didn't know much about it. At first, she didn't want to believe what she was reading because she felt it downplayed what she was feeling and going through. After a few weeks, she started coming around to the idea that perimenopause may be the root of much of what she was experiencing given the just 1 year earlier, our relationship was quite solid.

Between the winter and 2017 and all of 2018, it was quite touch and go with us. Her sex drive did come back in early 2018. Not until maybe the end of 2019 did things really improve between us. This experience is without a doubt the hardest thing I've ever gone though on so many levels. I could write a book about it. Patience, understanding, and honesty was the key to working it all out. My wife is still deep into perimenopause and still have ups and downs but she has embraced the experience and transition.

[Tambohamilton]

Very interesting. I don't think I've noticed any if those symptoms in her...or at least none that aren't more likely to be pregnancy related. She has literally said though 'it's not a libido problem'. So...I don't know.

Kudos to you for sticking it out and working through it. I'm glad things are improving!

[Alfisti]

It's a cliche and definitely somewhat of a stereotype but IMHO, men struggle with women's moods. I dunno, seems like men are for the most part pretty consistent creatures but women's needs and worries change quickly and yeah we then stand back and say "fuck me I cannot deal with this crazy, I have had it with the crazy". Cue conflict.

Our first son was alone with me the first time at about a year old, wife was out and he just would not stop wailing, and i mean wailing. Keep in mind I am a doting dad so not like I was absent or anything before that. So anyways, I try EVERYTHING to calm him but no luck but he'd been screaming for an hour, so called the wife in case she had any suggestions. She came home annoyed and I said I tried everything, even a little finger dip of honey to soothe him.

My fucking god, she went absolutely certifiable ballistic, like totally batshit off the wall ballistic because apparently you shouldn't give honey to kids under 2 or they can get some disease or something. I looked it up and it was 1 in 140,000. I retaliated and let fly and it was fully on and she threatened to leave etc...... i just couldn't handle the crazy.

[Tambohamilton]

My partner left me feeling like I'd been a complete c-nut once or twice in the early days, when all I'd done was try my best to look after kiddo... That particular move feels so harsh, because you've just been doing your best.

Beginning to wonder if maybe I'm the one who doesn't deal well with normal life, here

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Very interesting. I don't think I've noticed any if those symptoms in her...or at least none that aren't more likely to be pregnancy related. She has literally said though 'it's not a libido problem'. So...I don't know.

Kudos to you for sticking it out and working through it. I'm glad things are improving!

If she's saying it's not a libido problem then what's she doing to satisfy herself? Obviously, she is saying the want is there. Who or what is taking care of that for her or does she just ignore it? From a woman's standpoint, yes she may have things going on with her but there is something about you that isn't doing it/problematic for her. I don't say this to be mean or get you down. It sounds like it's not bad enough for her to walk away but it's a barrier for her to connect with you physically. If she isn't talking/communicating with you, you can't fix what you don't know.

I know people don't want to walk away because of fear of not seeing their kids, etc. As humans, most crave physically attention from those they love and it's not something you should deny someone you love. Also, you may both be present in your home but it's not good for your kids to grow up not seeing affection/love between their parents.

[3.0L]

Sometimes it gets down to this:

[E93Beast]

So far, so good

[Bunnny]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Thanks for the replies.

I figure I've got to stay, realistically. I just need to work out how to make that positive.




Yes, nonexistent except fo reproduction purposes only... I find it hard to deal with that; can't switch off the urge. Partner acknowledges that it's an issue, but at the same time can offer no solution. She's petrified I might leave (I've made it clear repeatedly that I want to stay), but can't offer any sort of plan. It's not just sex that's gone; it's any form of physical affection; hugs etc etc...gone.

Going to see a doctor to try and separate what is likely some depression from the relationship issues. I'm very aware that it seems shallow to split up the family basically because I don't get sex...but at the same time it constantly gets me down.

Counsellor would offer more ideas for sure, but my partner can't bring herself to be part of the sessions. Going to stop the sessions for the foreseeable - not very helpful since we can only deal with my side of the story. Initial proposals were some ways for us to show some affection, without any pressure. But turns out that if you don't feel the urge to show affection, and nobody asks you for affection......yeah.

Looks like I need a spoonful of concrete!

I have to agree with another person's comment, it's better to leave than to stay 'just for the kids'. Kids are hardy and adapt easily to change, and they will get over it. Whats not acceptable is to bring them up in the illusion of mommy and daddy being unhappy (no affection, no genuine love), and that's the ideal on how relationships are supposed to be. Lotta people out there who didn't learn what it is to be giving, understanding, and a real companion because of this.
You can always teach them who loves them, but you cant unteach a broken home.

As for 'turning off the urge', that is inhumane and unfair to you as a human being. Marriage comes with the idea that you are to rely on this person for your sexual needs for the rest of your life (it goes both ways). I think people don't recognize this when they commit. The other person will have wants when you don't feel like it, and vice versa (or so it should go).
Also, who's to say if you left that life wouldn't improve for the better?

[floridaorange]

Just celebrated 11 yrs married - looking back i see a lot of creative problem solving - and the willingness to forgive and forget on both sides.

One of the most simple ways to solve problems in a marriage is 15 mins or so of eye contact conversion uninterrupted. If you don't have that connection then you can often lose your empathy - once the empathy levels go down - treating each other subpar is easier.

Neither party deserves to be treated average, period. You got married for love, now start loving damnit.

[4Hockey4]

Kids are hardy and adapt easily to change, and they will get over it.

This is incorrect, for myself, and anyone else I knew. Studies prove otherwise also. I would have taken my parents screaming, throwing shit sexless miserable pieces of shit, then what happened at 8.

Selfishly someone can tell themselves that, but kids (outside the screaming) would much rather have them together. And quite frankly, is probably a #1 problem in our society today, not having 2 parents to raise, help and support. (yea thats not real successful in sep. homes as they move on with their next family)

That doesn't mean kids of 2 parents don't get in trouble, but there success rate is MUCH higher, in all aspects'

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

Kids are hardy and adapt easily to change, and they will get over it.

This is incorrect, for myself, and anyone else I knew. Studies prove otherwise also. I would have taken my parents screaming, throwing shit sexless miserable pieces of shit, then what happened at 8.

Selfishly someone can tell themselves that, but kids (outside the screaming) would much rather have them together. And quite frankly, is probably a #1 problem in our society today, not having 2 parents to raise, help and support. (yea thats not real successful in sep. homes as they move on with their next family)

That doesn't mean kids of 2 parents don't get in trouble, but there success rate is MUCH higher, in all aspects'

It's interesting reading peoples' opinions there. My parents divorced when I was 22ish - years after I left home. They were (are still) good parents, so I didn't have what I'd consider to be a bad time when i was growing up. However since they separated I have always said I wish they'd just gone their separate ways much much sooner. Looking back at my teenage years I can see now that they were miserable together...it seems like such a waste, and I know it didn't help the atmosphere at home. My sisters did a lot of ballet which my mum transported them around for, and my dad worked 7 days a week for years (fisherman) - I think both of those were convenient/constructive reasons for them not to be in the house together (though they were back every night).

My partner and I get on fine day to day, except the odd disagreement (no shouting etc), so I don't think it's negatively affecting kiddo... If it does get bad, I know I'll be weighing up my options more carefully. At the moment leaving doesn't feel like an option, which I guess does contribute to me feeling more stuck.