[Fundguy1]

So whats the plan on swapping 1000lbs of battery? Really? Everyone embracing it? Why? Until there's a conpelling reason, and therear isn't now, they won't.

[AndreyATC]

Just to throw a little sale thing into prospective
Apparently quite a few people leaving other brands for Tesla
I guess not everyone is concerned about not being able to do Nurburgring



Anyone have 2015 vs 2016 YTD comparo?
Though, it's tough to get these numbers given that TM is reporting sales quarterly, not monthly

[zer0cool]

Isn't 71k basically the super base price for a Model S 60D with almost no options? Pretty much all Model S cars come with leather seat, sunroof and autopilot, which are 7k. And most have other options.

I thought the avg sales price (not sure if Tesla releases) is just above 100k, instead of 71k as show in the above chart.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So whats the plan on swapping 1000lbs of battery? Really? Everyone embracing it? Why? Until there's a conpelling reason, and therear isn't now, they won't.

By now, i guess we all know Tesla is not for you
You've reiterated this 1000 times now

Don't buy one?
Don't argue with those who want one, they'll still buy it as soon as the test drive?
Don't argue with those who happily own one (or few), game over here?

I'm on my second Tesla, because i can no longer drive slow-reacting ICE**
I'm on my second Tesla, because i never wanna go to stinky gas station again
I'm on my second Tesla, because it leads in many technological advancements compared to others

Anyone i know either want one or buying one in the nearest future

** In emergency, it takes 1.2 sec to bring Tesla from 45-65
This could be life threatening situation, when you are cruising in your top gear and some drunk moron running the red light and is trying to t-bone you.
ICE car will never react as quick. It takes time to raise RPM, downshift and get going.
This feels forever in those cases and will take good amount of time for most gasoline cars to leave the scene of impact
With ICE, You always have to time your maneuver, set the right gear, catch window, etc
In Tesla, you're always in-gear, in high RPM and in your power band

Any situation when you need immediate acceleration, Tesla will be much quicker to react
It's that instant catapult that set Tesla apart from ICEs

On the braking side there is a bit of advantage as well.
The moment you lift your foot from gas pedal to apply the brakes, you're already decelerating with regen
Almost like the car applied it for you before you even changed pedals

[Frozen]

I simply cannot believe there are still climate change deniers. Come on FundGuy1. I thought this guy was the last one:

Changing opinions on climate change, from a CNN meteorologist

[Fundguy1]

Lol. Actually about half the population would disagree with you. That is, everyone agrees that climate changes. But it always has. The earth isn't static. The Sahara used to be a jungle. No. The earth changes. But we are in a long term multi millenia change. No data that hasn't been admitted already to be faked shows anything different. Is there an acceleration due to man's carbon output? No data has shown this either. People massage the numbers to show yes and no. Was Al Gore's predictions in his movie that started this craze correct? No. I'd be underwater for the past 5 years if they were. Is the ozone layer vanishing? No, actualky it's healing. Are the polar caps vanishing? No. There's more south pole ice than ever. No, the earth is just doing what it does. Species die out. Land topography changes. Erosion. Volcanoes, on and on.

But is there a political agenda based in socialism and communism behind the sudden fervent push for low carbon emissions? Absolutely. And in my opinion, this political and economic system is one of the greatest evils ever invented by man. So do I want to ruin the world's economy, stagnate the progress of mankind, lower the worldwide standard of living, etc etc etc based on dubious at best assumptions? No.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

And? Is it climate change or global warming this week? Pure hoax either way. Did you donate to Al Gore's personal bank account too by paying for carbon credits? How do you think he became a billionaire? It's a sham run by former members of communist parties and socialist liberals who use it to beat up on capitalism and push for global wealth redistribution. A cow's carbon footprint is bigger than mine. Should I stopened eating burgers and feeding my kid milk? Just the facts too.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/...limate-change/
http://mobile.wnd.com/2007/03/40445/

I'm not sure how you think there's a "conspiracy" by everyone who is "sciency". It kind of makes you look a little ridiculous. You are trying to say that because Al Gore is rich, science and climate change aren't real? You do realize those are unrelated things?, a does not =b because x=y. So people conducting research on the climate are former members of communist parties? It's clear, you hate anything that disagrees with the way you want things to be.

About the milk, it's been proven that past a certain age, you don't absorb milk into your bones. The dairy industry wants you to think that milk=strong bones, and we've been told it so many times we assume it's true, but it's not how calcium is absorbed after a certain age, so you might want to do a little research on that too...

Maybe your whole world is coming down because your head is buried in the sand?

Sea ice levels continue to decrease:

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard...ecord-maximum/

More:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...822-story.html

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Are the polar caps vanishing? No. There's more south pole ice than ever.

You should really never again say anything on this subject, because it's clear you've never actually researched it at all and that you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

[Efthreeoh]

I drive about 170 miles round trip every weekday to work. Back when my car was near my mileage end target of 250,000 miles I started looking into replacing it. The Tesla S had been out for about 2 years at that point. The delivery wait time was somewhere around 6 weeks (about the same time it took to build my E90 and ship it from Germany). Being that my fuel bill is significant at about $350/month it was worth looking into the Model S as an alternative to my ICE DD. The benefits I see to an EV are possibly less drivetrain maintenance and I love the idea of a constant price for fuel. The thing I do "hate" is how gas fluctuates in price; no other commodity constantly changes in price with large swings.

So off to do the math... With real cost data in hand for 200,000 miles of ICE daily commute I compared the total cost of ownership of my E90 to the extrapolated total cost of ownership of the lowest price Tesla S that gave 200+ miles of range, a $70K 85P at the time (3 years ago). My cost of ownership for the Tesla was based off of information from Tesla's website. Total cost data means vehicle price, loan cost, fuel cost, and maintenance.

Assuming the Tesla's battery would have a usable duty cycle of 200,000 miles and still provide capacity to deliver 200 + mile range, the cost for 200,000 miles in a Tesla was about $20,000 more than my E90. I didn't buy one. The problem is the upfront sales price of the Tesla S doesn't offset the price of fuel consumed by an average ICE car. Yup, the Tesla S is really in a class or two of car above the E90. Compare a Model S to a BMW 7, or a Benz S-class, and the economic model changes because the MSRPs are equal. But for the average person who can't afford the sales price and operating costs of an S-class class car, the Tesla S is a no go. That's where the "$35K" Model 3 comes into play (or in reality... the Chevy Bolt). Get the vehicle price down to $35,000 and the electric vehicle make economic sense for the average consumer.

That’s why the Tesla Model 3 is so appealing, because the math works for it. We’ll see if Musk and Tesla can actually deliver it at the range and price advertized. I know GM will deliver the Bolt at its marks. The Chevy Volt delivered and more on what GM said it would do; no reason to expect the Bolt not to. Tesla with each car it promised was late to production and missed the target price.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

You should really never again say anything on this subject, because it's clear you've never actually researched it at all and that you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

Having college-level calculus, chemistry, engineering, physics, astronomy, geology, and archaeology classes in my background, I've researched the counterpoint to globalwarmingclimatechange (I make it one word because the Left meters between the two constantly) and the climate models have been proven they can't accurately predict anything. Some climate scientists have taken historical climate data (10,000 year old) from ice samples and lake-bottom soil samples and run the data in modern climate models. None of the models have predicted the current climate of today. So actually not understanding is not researching the other side of the discussion. Perhaps Fundguy1 has done so and you have not?

Dr. Patrick Michaels is a good place to start.

[Laki021]

I don't even understand why people are comparing Model S with series 7 and S class, when Model S is clearly competitor to series 5 and E class. The only reason might be the price, but that is a disadvantage of Tesla, not the reason to compare it with larger cars. So this statistic is very misleading, like comparing Tesla S sales to BMW 3 sales.

I see that Tesla S a beta product (they are lucky that their customers/fans have much higher problem tolerance than spoiled BMW drivers, but this will change over the time), it will take many more years before they are capable to make cars that are reliable (EVs are much simpler than ICV, but still Tesla manages to be much less reliable than competitors), well built, with comparable interior quality (this will probably never happen) to BMW or Merc... (I see some people here are comparing Tesla X interior to Bentley, seriously? are you on drugs or what?). In a meanwhile they might stop to exist, they are burning bunch of cash, while competitors are earning. The only reason why BMW, Merc, Audi are not in this market is that they are not interested in burning few billion dollars a year. They have the technology for sure (it's way simpler than IC and especially hybrid cars, they even already have better batteries comparing to Tesla's obsolete Panasonic laptop batteries), they just know that it is too early.
In a few years, when they enter this market, they will destroy Tesla with superior quality, better support, much better interior...

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I'm not sure how you think there's a "conspiracy" by everyone who is "sciency". It kind of makes you look a little ridiculous. You are trying to say that because Al Gore is rich, science and climate change aren't real? You do realize those are unrelated things?, a does not =b because x=y. So people conducting research on the climate are former members of communist parties? It's clear, you hate anything that disagrees with the way you want things to be.

About the milk, it's been proven that past a certain age, you don't absorb milk into your bones. The dairy industry wants you to think that milk=strong bones, and we've been told it so many times we assume it's true, but it's not how calcium is absorbed after a certain age, so you might want to do a little research on that too...

Maybe your whole world is coming down because your head is buried in the sand?

Sea ice levels continue to decrease:

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard...ecord-maximum/

More:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...822-story.html

Al Gore got rich from bilking people into paying for carbon credits. It was a sham.
Sciency people are split on global waring. The "stat" that 95% of scientists agree in global warming was debumked a decade ago when it csme out the "research" they used was Al from one source who admitted to cooking the numbers to make it look like there is global warming.

The artic ice is receding. The sub artic ice is expanding. The global warming crowd ignores record levels of ice at the south pole.

And finally the people pushing the global waring agenda, not the scientists, are the former communist and socialist parties. They want to use legislaton to redistribute wealth globally snd punish capitalism.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I drive about 170 miles round trip every weekday to work. Back when my car was near my mileage end target of 250,000 miles I started looking into replacing it. The Tesla S had been out for about 2 years at that point. The delivery wait time was somewhere around 6 weeks (about the same time it took to build my E90 and ship it from Germany). Being that my fuel bill is significant at about $350/month it was worth looking into the Model S as an alternative to my ICE DD. The benefits I see to an EV are possibly less drivetrain maintenance and I love the idea of a constant price for fuel. The thing I do "hate" is how gas fluctuates in price; no other commodity constantly changes in price with large swings.

So off to do the math... With real cost data in hand for 200,000 miles of ICE daily commute I compared the total cost of ownership of my E90 to the extrapolated total cost of ownership of the lowest price Tesla S that gave 200+ miles of range, a $70K 85P at the time (3 years ago). My cost of ownership for the Tesla was based off of information from Tesla's website. Total cost data means vehicle price, loan cost, fuel cost, and maintenance.

Assuming the Tesla's battery would have a usable duty cycle of 200,000 miles and still provide capacity to deliver 200 + mile range, the cost for 200,000 miles in a Tesla was about $20,000 more than my E90. I didn't buy one. The problem is the upfront sales price of the Tesla S doesn't offset the price of fuel consumed by an average ICE car. Yup, the Tesla S is really in a class or two of car above the E90. Compare a Model S to a BMW 7, or a Benz S-class, and the economic model changes because the MSRPs are equal. But for the average person who can't afford the sales price and operating costs of an S-class class car, the Tesla S is a no go. That's where the "$35K" Model 3 comes into play (or in reality... the Chevy Bolt). Get the vehicle price down to $35,000 and the electric vehicle make economic sense for the average consumer.

That’s why the Tesla Model 3 is so appealing, because the math works for it. We’ll see if Musk and Tesla can actually deliver it at the range and price advertized. I know GM will deliver the Bolt at its marks. The Chevy Volt delivered and more on what GM said it would do; no reason to expect the Bolt not to. Tesla with each car it promised was late to production and missed the target price.

I agree with the math for someome like you or me. Howeverthe convenience part isn't there. I also find the styling hideous, performance monus 0-50 subpar, and abhor all the electronic bs in a tesla. I ordered my car without idrive and with a stick for a reason.

For the average person going 12-15k a year however, the numbers don't make sense at all, which is the problem.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

You should really never again say anything on this subject, because it's clear you've never actually researched it at all and that you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

Oooh, opposing view. Must not let it be expressed. You're as bad as my university professors and cnn. It's obvious actually the opposite that you haven't done your research.

Global warming research was all originally based on falsified data. That's when the 95% of scientists agree stat came out. Since then, 90% of those agreeing have said their research was wrong as a result of using the bad data.
Global temps rising rapidly has been dispelled yrs ago. Originally global warming people had cherry picked a small time frame to skew numbers in their favor. When stretched out longer than a century it shows almost zero change.
Here's the ice cap data. Global warming people try to dismiss it. Scientists who need their grants especially.
Finally the ozone layer is healing too.

Hmmm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature...e-caps-melting

After this came out we now also have research showing the ozone layer is healing and will be completely healed in s couple decades. Hmmmm

Then there's this.

[Fundguy1]

Regardless, even if climate change due to carbon emmissions did exist, cars in the US have a seriously and statistically insignificant impact on carbonus levels. Again, cow farts in the US put out way more carbon emmissions than cars. So outside that assumption, I still don't see any reason for one.

[Mingwan]

We got some Bill Nye science guy shit going on in here.

[Fundguy1]

Lol yup. He's the opposer. I think I'd go with Joe Bastardi, arguably one of the top meteorologists in the world vs a generalist trying to get tv show spots from the liberal left that is hollywood.

[NickyC]

More ammo for Fundguy!!

Hybrid Supercars suck in the heat! Start at 9:10 Fundguy, you can rage all day with this info!

[Frozen]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Lol. Actually about half the population would disagree with you. That is, everyone agrees that climate changes. But it always has. The earth isn't static. The Sahara used to be a jungle. No. The earth changes. But we are in a long term multi millenia change. No data that hasn't been admitted already to be faked shows anything different. Is there an acceleration due to man's carbon output? No data has shown this either. People massage the numbers to show yes and no. Was Al Gore's predictions in his movie that started this craze correct? No. I'd be underwater for the past 5 years if they were. Is the ozone layer vanishing? No, actualky it's healing. Are the polar caps vanishing? No. There's more south pole ice than ever. No, the earth is just doing what it does. Species die out. Land topography changes. Erosion. Volcanoes, on and on.

But is there a political agenda based in socialism and communism behind the sudden fervent push for low carbon emissions? Absolutely. And in my opinion, this political and economic system is one of the greatest evils ever invented by man. So do I want to ruin the world's economy, stagnate the progress of mankind, lower the worldwide standard of living, etc etc etc based on dubious at best assumptions? No.

It's sad that you bring politics into science. This is why we don't have enough progress on this threat.

Climate Change Denial:

Climate change denial, or global warming denial, is part of global warming controversy. It involves denial, dismissal, unwarranted doubt or contrarian views about facts and science about climate change, including the extent to which it is caused by humans, its impacts on nature and human society, or the potential of adaptation to global warming by human actions. In the global warming controversy, some deniers do endorse the term, but other often prefer the term climate change skepticism whereas scientists think it "inappropriate to allow those who deny [anthropogenic global warming] to don the mantle of skeptics"; in effect, the two terms form a continuous, overlapping range of views, and generally have the same characteristics: both reject, to a greater or lesser extent, mainstream scientific opinion on climate change. Climate change denial can also be implicit, when individuals or social groups accept the science but fail to come to terms with it or to translate their acceptance into action. Several social science studies have analyzed these positions as forms of denialism.

Campaigning to undermine public trust in climate science has been described as a "denial machine" of industrial, political and ideological interests, supported by conservative media and skeptical bloggers in manufacturing uncertainty about global warming. In the public debate, phrases such as climate skepticism have frequently been used with the same meaning as climate denialism. The labels are contested: those actively challenging climate science commonly describe themselves as "skeptics", but many do not comply with common standards of scientific skepticism and, regardless of evidence, persistently deny the validity of human caused global warming.

Although scientific opinion on climate change is that human activity is extremely likely to be the primary driver of climate change, the politics of global warming have been affected by climate change denial, hindering efforts to prevent climate change and adapt to the warming climate. Those promoting denial commonly use rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of a scientific controversy where there is none.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

I'm on my second Tesla, because i can no longer drive slow-reacting ICE**
I'm on my second Tesla, because i never wanna go to stinky gas station again
I'm on my second Tesla, because it leads in many technological advancements compared to others

Anyone i know either want one or buying one in the nearest future

Is your Telsa your only car? If so, what to you do for road trips or long drives that exceed range. Do you rent a car? Trying to justify a Telsa, but it just doesn't seem to fit my lifestyle.

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Is your Telsa your only car? If so, what to you do for road trips or long drives that exceed range. Do you rent a car? Trying to justify a Telsa, but it just doesn't seem to fit my lifestyle.

This is the map of supercharger stations:
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

You can plan your route through to most areas using the map. I have seen many users in the Tesla forum plan long trips across country. Once you reach a station, take a 20-30 min break for bathroom and snacks. Reserve rooms at hotels that have charging spots.

And to Fundguy1, I am not any tree humper or a follower of the green movement. However, you should take a look at lifestyle in Beijing. They have to check the smog level each day to see if they can go outside. China did not have any regulations on air pollution until it was too late. Wouldn't it be better to make cleaner technology even if there wasn't global warming so that we would have cleaner air to breath? You also throw out communism and socialism a lot, but have you ever been to such a country? It's worthless to debate with people like you because you throw everything under the bus before you even experience it yourself. You seem to lump everything in categories as good or bad instead of finding the good in things from both sides of the tradeoff.

Here is the video of the battery swap:

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by DATM3

This is the map of supercharger stations:
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

You can plan your route through to most areas using the map. I have seen many users in the Tesla forum plan long trips across country. Once you reach a station, take a 20-30 min break for bathroom and snacks. Reserve rooms at hotels that have charging spots.

I have done a little reading on some various forums and threads about road trips. There are ev trip planners that people use. It just all seems very inconvenient, having to plan your route out and them stopping to charge for 30+mins. Some guy has a good break down of his trip from Boston to Tampa, his average charge time was 34mins with a total of 8hr50mins of charging. A 21hrs drive took almost 30hrs.

Also other question is, when the cheaper Telsa 3 arrives. Will these supercharge stations be able to handle more users? Will there be wait to use the charging stations?

Of all the people I know personally that own Telsa's, they own other cars as well. My neighbor has a Telsa, but they also have a new Range Rover and 911. When they go on road trips they pack up the Range Rover.

Ideally I think I need a hybrid, that doesn't exist yet. I want a car with about 100mile electric range for city/daily commuting, then also have ICE for extended trips. Basically a more advanced/sportier Volt, but built by Germans.