[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by kyriian

But apparently its coming in 2035 and nothing can be done about it, be a part of it or.... something

Someone in gov.made a statement that ''they're coming in 2035'' I guess what that means is that new gas and diesel cars will not be sold anymore.
Mandates can be overturned.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

There really is no debate in Canada, once governments let PHEV's in under the legislation them there's no issue, the regulations will be met. It really is that simple.

You will own nothing, eat mealworms and be happy

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I get government can regulate things, but something as big as transportation and individual needs makes it seem that supply and demand will be an issue. Government can force manufacturers to build EV's but it's difficult to force people to buy them. I guess I'm saying that there is a certain percentage of the population who don't care what they drive and they will buy what's available but there is also a significant group that are likely to not want to buy an EV. If car manufactures can't sell them what happens then?

THEN, government imposes regulations that make it incredibly painful for you to own and operate a ICE-powered vehicle on a daily basis. Cue more government spending via "incentives" to help make new EVs "affordable" (because, why not spend more money? Just turn the printer on and let it rip).

[BGM-M3COMP]

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Cos270

THEN, government imposes regulations that make it incredibly painful for you to own and operate a ICE-powered vehicle on a daily basis. Cue more government spending via "incentives" to help make new EVs "affordable" (because, why not spend more money? Just turn the printer on and let it rip).

So we can go around and around but at the end of the day let's not forget that "the government" has imposed deadlines. In my experience they have failed to hit a single "on time/on budget" in history.

I suspect that as time goes along the mandates will slip as they can't get the infrastructure and associated approvals in line within a generation.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I suspect that as time goes along the mandates will slip as they can't get the infrastructure and associated approvals in line within a generation.

I sound like a broken record but, if PHEV's are included the mandates will not slip because one still has a gas back up if you need it.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Cos270

THEN, government imposes regulations that make it incredibly painful for you to own and operate a ICE-powered vehicle on a daily basis. Cue more government spending via "incentives" to help make new EVs "affordable" (because, why not spend more money? Just turn the printer on and let it rip).

The sad part is, there are plenty of people that support that very thing. It doesn’t matter. That’s not how it’s going to go down. They can impose all the regulations they want and reality will be reality and that is people are going to buy what they can afford and we will never have the infrastructure to support an all electric fleet nationwide. It won’t happen. Not while any of us on this forum are alive anyway. And by that time, I suspect entrepreneurs will have invented something else that makes green people happy that actually will be practical and more importantly, affordable for everyone to own and operate.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I get government can regulate things, but something as big as transportation and individual needs makes it seem that supply and demand will be an issue. Government can force manufacturers to build EV's but it's difficult to force people to buy them. I guess I'm saying that there is a certain percentage of the population who don't care what they drive and they will buy what's available but there is also a significant group that are likely to not want to buy an EV. If car manufactures can't sell them what happens then?

At least in the US, I think the market demand for EVs has its own legs. There are challenges around infrastructure that are still being sorted out, but I think the target for government incentives now are all around ensuring development of batteries isn’t done by non-allied countries.

Including very interesting developments to enable the recycling of EV batteries which as been a bit of an Achilles Heel for EVs to date. Without it we’ll likely hit a limit on batteries realistically. A new plant being built locally to me will have the ability to produce 200K EV batteries a year from said recycling.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ion-us-backing

[Socal_R8]

I think people are sensationalizing and overreacting to what some car manufacturers and governments are saying they will be fully EV by 2035 or that you won't be able to buy a NEW ICE car after 2035 in some states.

First and foremost, this does NOT mean every ICE vehicle is being sent to the crusher at midnight on 12/31/34

There will be plenty on ICE vehicles for people to buy for the next 50 years at minimum and probably well past any of our lifetimes....so chill

secondly, some act like this is happening tomorrow .... hand wringing about the grid and infrastructure. This is decades away from effecting much of any of that for one and technology moves at the speed of light..Remember cell phones and TV's 20 years ago? We will most likely be flying around in drones by the time time ICE vehicles are actually not being produced anymore.
There may very soon be batteries with 600 mile range and much more efficient power sources by 2035 who knows how far along the technology will be, but I'm guessing much further than it is today


Worrying about any of it in 2023 is a waste of time

[KRS_SN]

Maybe a joke but having made a plan to tax and eliminate ice now there is a plan to eliminate tyres and brakes...
Lunacy and policy seem to be going hand in hand.
https://www.financialaccountant.co.u...n-on-emissions

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

I think people are sensationalizing and overreacting to what some car manufacturers and governments are saying they will be fully EV by 2035 or that you won't be able to buy a NEW ICE car after 2035 in some states.

First and foremost, this does NOT mean every ICE vehicle is being sent to the crusher at midnight on 12/31/34

There will be plenty on ICE vehicles for people to buy for the next 50 years at minimum and probably well past any of our lifetimes....so chill

secondly, some act like this is happening tomorrow .... hand wringing about the grid and infrastructure. This is decades away from effecting much of any of that for one and technology moves at the speed of light..Remember cell phones and TV's 20 years ago? We will most likely be flying around in drones by the time time ICE vehicles are actually not being produced anymore.
There may very soon be batteries with 600 mile range and much more efficient power sources by 2035 who knows how far along the technology will be, but I'm guessing much further than it is today


Worrying about any of it in 2023 is a waste of time

You make some excellent points, and I agree with much of what you wrote with the exception of worrying. I am not worrying about anything other than political interference. Allow flat out capitalism to determine the direction we go and I’ll be happy as a school boy on Christmas Eve. But one thing is for sure and you made this point, even with all out government interference it’s still going to take many decades, to even think about eliminating ice.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You make some excellent points, and I agree with much of what you wrote with the exception of worrying. I am not worrying about anything other than political interference. Allow flat out capitalism to determine the direction we go and I’ll be happy as a school boy on Christmas Eve. But one thing is for sure and you made this point, even with all out government interference it’s still going to take many decades, to even think about eliminating ice.

I don’t think this is a capitalism issue. The government regulates all sorts of things you can and can’t buy on the basis of the environment. Leaded gas used to be a thing. Catalytic converters are now required. People used to smoke cigarettes in the office at work. EVs are just a differently flavor of this.

And like socal said, this isn’t happening over night. It’s a gradual transition years in the making.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I don’t think this is a capitalism issue. The government regulates all sorts of things you can and can’t buy on the basis of the environment. Leaded gas used to be a thing. Catalytic converters are now required. People used to smoke cigarettes in the office at work. EVs are just a differently flavor of this.

And like socal said, this isn’t happening over night. It’s a gradual transition years in the making.

I don’t think we’re allowed to discuss this here. I’m not saying your points are wrong I’m just saying it will cause this discussion to go into a direction that will quite possibly trigger some people. So I’m just going with it’s a capitalism thing and will just leave it at that.

[2023G87M2]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You make some excellent points, and I agree with much of what you wrote with the exception of worrying. I am not worrying about anything other than political interference. Allow flat out capitalism to determine the direction we go and I’ll be happy as a school boy on Christmas Eve. But one thing is for sure and you made this point, even with all out government interference it’s still going to take many decades, to even think about eliminating ice.

Political interference should work both ways then don't you think? Capitalism interferes non stop with politics through lobbying, buying out politicians. So you would think it would work both ways?

The EV laws that may come, have NOTHING to do with government, but everything to do with the wealthy. You see, powerful and or wealthy people HATED smog in their cities like new York or la, INCLUDING politicians or shareholders etc. That's why the anti smog laws came about. If the EV laws are passed, they will be done in transitional phases, once more infrastructure is in place, and once enough shareholders have gotten even richer through oil, ICE, etc. EVs are like another anti smog law. Not even billionaires or car company CEO'S today would want to go back to pre smog laws because all it has done is benefit their property from not being covered in smog. The same thing will be true with EVs.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I sound like a broken record but, if PHEV's are included the mandates will not slip because one still has a gas back up if you need it.

One problem with that, how many PHEVs are being developed for the US market right now? Not enough to sustain the demand that would be generated. Unless you're insinuating that the current supply of PHEVs on sale today is sufficient to offset the emission restrictions. Pretty much everyone but Toyota has made it abundantly clear they are making the jump straight from ICE to EV with no hybrid stop-gap.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

So we can go around and around but at the end of the day let's not forget that "the government" has imposed deadlines. In my experience they have failed to hit a single "on time/on budget" in history.

I suspect that as time goes along the mandates will slip as they can't get the infrastructure and associated approvals in line within a generation.

Deadlines for manufacturers is one thing (and as you say, can easily be pushed out). I'm talking about carbon taxes for private citizens, mileage restrictions/limits, etc. These will be enacted eventually regardless of manufacturers' progress or lack thereof.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by 2023G87M2

Political interference should work both ways then don't you think? Capitalism interferes non stop with politics through lobbying, buying out politicians. So you would think it would work both ways?

The EV laws that may come, have NOTHING to do with government, but everything to do with the wealthy. You see, powerful and or wealthy people HATED smog in their cities like new York or la, INCLUDING politicians or shareholders etc. That's why the anti smog laws came about. If the EV laws are passed, they will be done in transitional phases, once more infrastructure is in place, and once enough shareholders have gotten even richer through oil, ICE, etc. EVs are like another anti smog law. Not even billionaires or car company CEO'S today would want to go back to pre smog laws because all it has done is benefit their property from not being covered in smog. The same thing will be true with EVs.

Couldn't be more correct (though I think the incentives are a little more lucrative than smog reduction haha - that's just a bonus). People need to wake up and realize this is not purely political. It's not about the "left" or "right". In the word's of George Carlin "There's a big club, and you ain't in it" - this is the status quo they will stop at nothing to maintain. This time it's just being sold under the guise of environmentalism.

[2023G87M2]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Couldn't be more correct (though I think the incentives are a little more lucrative than smog reduction haha - that's just a bonus). People need to wake up and realize this is not purely political. It's not about the "left" or "right". In the word's of George Carlin "There's a big club, and you ain't in it" - this is the status quo they will stop at nothing to maintain. This time it's just being sold under the guise of environmentalism.

Your right. Another form of pollution is noise smog. Imagine how quiet everything will be without car noise. I'm actually kind of happy about this part. I still want ICE for track use and some canyon roads should be reserved for enthusiasts with ICE allowed. But we don't need to worry about this for a LONG TIME

Real environmentalism would work something like this.

All cars EV
All power plants hydro, wind, a little of solar or solar roofs, geothermal (in areas that have it), and most importantly, Nuclear (but unaware people think nuclear=chernobyl)
Stopping all animal farming
Stopping fishing or at least overfishing
Stopping tree cutting by like 3/4ths
Cutting useless mail out to replace with email
More public transport.
Factories need to stop dumping waste or using oil/gas as energy.

Beyond that, I don't see cargo ships or planes going EV anytime soon, perhaps ethanol may replace oil?


SO Yea when you see that list, you just KNOW none of the things on the list will happen not even in the next 30 years. So people shouldn't be afraid whatsoever. The earth will continue building up more methane and co2. Climate deniers are like creationists or flat eathers. I assume no one here denies climate change

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Worrying about any of it in 2023 is a waste of time

People care because this 12 year goal is already impacting them.

[RichF90M5C]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Instead of UK, Brit drivers should put EU FU on their cars.

I’d be more inclined to have FU UK on mine, I’m so embarrassed of this country right now.

[RichF90M5C]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Off peak charging rates is a thing NOW
When EVs become a larger part of the market say 2035
If 50% of the new cars are EV, the electric companies will know they got you by the short hairs
They can change their rates to maximize profit
For a normal Household, they can track usage based on load
Not charging a 100kwhr battery is one price
Charge your EV and put load on the circuit, a different higher price
Imagine paying more to charge your EV than paying for gas would be a reality soon in the future

I’ve been saying this will happen for months, people think I’m crazy.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by RichF90M5C

I’d be more inclined to have FU UK on mine, I’m so embarrassed of this country right now.

Sod it, I should have included it too. I'll only be voting for Jeremy Clarkson now if he stands for government.