[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I always thoroughly enjoy reading your responses because they are always vextremely well thought out opinions. While I agree with your point that thing do evolve from nothing. I would like for you to put yourself in NYC life for just a second. These highways are ALWAYS packed with cars yet he is the only car stuck in this mob. Also, it's a beautiful sunny afternoon in a congested part of NYC, not the ideal spot to start shit with a truck. That would be left for upstate or eastern long island. Now a Sk yourself, given the background I gave you, how did this guy findhimaelf surrounded on WEST SIDE HIGHWAY in the middle of the day? I'm sorry to all those on team RR but i just don't see how this guy had no out. He easily could have avoided the situation and been proactive instead of reactive. I think he is just as much of an idiot as the "mob".

I don't know what to tell you, sometimes you can do everything right and still get shit on.

I don't know what he did, if anything. But you put yourself in his situation with about 70 bikers surrounding you and as you said, no other cars around, on a 3 lane highway with limited exits. You really think this range rover owner driving with his wife and kid instigated this incident with anything more than a horn honk or gesture? A family man driving a RR is not the likely culprit here.


Think about this, what is the intent of the 50 to 70 bikers when out riding?

What is the intent of the family out driving in their RR?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the biker gang was intent on doing some stunt riding on public roads in the midst of traffic in an attempt to get dramatic video. I'm sure you noticed that the start and end of that video were edits, not turning on and turning off the camera. I'd be interested in seeing the full video from that helmet gopro. My money is on the bikers singling out the RR and fucking with them for video laughs.


So, what everyone can see here but is having trouble communicating is; the odds of the RR starting shit with a biker gang is infinitely lower than a biker gang starting something with a lone RR that might be easily scared for a laugh.

Yes, anything is possible, but the RR instigating this incident isn't probable.

[EyeGuy]

In NYC if you possess a firearm illegally it's a mandatory 1-3 years in jail. It's extremely difficult if not impossible to get a cc permit in the city. Trust me I've tried and I am also a business owner here in NYC. I do have my cc license in NY state however. I just choose not to carry in the city because if anything were to happen where my life was threatened and had to shoot someone, guess who will probably end up in jail.

A lot of these bike clubs in NY go on runs like these often. And within the 100s of bikers involved in this incident, guaranteed a couple were armed. Some probably correction officers and such.

The big mistake the rr made was engaging with a bike gang over 100 deep with his wife and baby in the back. Also getting off the Henry Hudson and going towards Washington heights. He was bound to hit stopped traffic.

[EyeGuy]

Oh.... And please stop calling magazines clips

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Never ridden a motorcycle. The only people I hate more than assholes are entitled people which is exactly what this RR driver hits me as.

I like to analyze situations from all angles. Clearly your emotions are keeping you from doing so.

Just because you don't like entitled people does it mean you can do things to every entitled person you see?
Fine, road rage at them, call them names, heck, if you're in NYC with enough of your buddies - do what the brake check guy did.

Originally Posted by pgviper

If I ever justified the bikers actions then I am sorry for portraying an inaccurate opinion. I don't know why I keep coming back to this ridiculous thread but it's probably because we are all so quick to judge the motorcyclists. However the other side to this whole story is the driver himself. The guy is a moron. I know from personal experience that it is ALWAYS best to avoid a situation which this guy clearly didn't do. Hence why my opinion is that he is equally responsible for this mess.

I don't know if it's just around me but the media isn't even showing the first part of this video any more. They are only showing the last couple seconds.

Yes. Normaly road rage between any two people. Most people would let the bikers rage and not do anything, because they know the situation they are in - so he was a dumb ass.
But it doesn't make the criminals any less criminal. Everybody is just afraid of them.

Originally Posted by pgviper

These highways are ALWAYS packed with cars yet he is the only car stuck in this mob. Also, it's a beautiful sunny afternoon in a congested part of NYC, not the ideal spot to start shit with a truck. That would be left for upstate or eastern long island. Now a Sk yourself, given the background I gave you, how did this guy findhimaelf surrounded on WEST SIDE HIGHWAY in the middle of the day? I'm sorry to all those on team RR but i just don't see how this guy had no out. He easily could have avoided the situation and been proactive instead of reactive. I think he is just as much of an idiot as the "mob".

The guy and wife was asian (chinese)..
not saying they were 'profiled' - but, yes i am
Like ol Georgy Zimmerman didn't profile TM..

[KingOfJericho]

Here's how I imagine this played out because I've seen it happen. These guys want to do some stunt riding on an open stretch of the HH/WSH. The way to achieve that is to slow down or halt all traffic behind you to let the road clear. You can see a few times in the video that some of the riders were speeding ahead to block other vehicles from entering via the entrance ramps.

My intuition says that the RR driver probably honked at the guys or went around them to gain access to the highway without knowing that there was a gang of dozens. Having driven this road hundreds of times, I have never seen it as empty as it is in the video. Now, after the RR went around said guys, I think they were aggravated and gave chase. They then surrounded the car to bring it to a stop in order to keep the highway clear. Their stupidly chosen way of doing so was to get in front of the RR and slow down. Let's remember, there is a reason why the following distance rule is two seconds longer when following a motorcycle - it's because they stop faster! The dummy on the bike failed to realize this and was then struck by the RR.

This self-imposed instigation, a prime example of when keeping it real goes wrong, caused the injury which then threw the rest of the gang into a feeding frenzy. They slashed the tires of the RR and tried to open the door to drag the driver into the street for a Reginald Denny style beating. He was right to get the fuck out of that situation at any cost as it was clearly a self-defense tactic.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by 6MT M3

This is horrible... If he had a gun for self protection this probably wouldnt have happened... Yet if he has a gun the bikers can have a gun too... No real safe way out of this.

Even if the RR driver had a fire arm and used it, he would go to prison if his profession is not in the field of law enforcement.

CC permit is basically impossible to get if your HOR is within the 5 boroughs unless you are law enforcement. Even military personnel cannot get that permit if they live within the NYC area.

Originally Posted by blackboxing

I disagree that there is confusion to who's at fault.

From the video, you can see that everyone else is moving at a constant rate from about 0:20, up until about 0:26, where it's very clear the guy in front of the SUV (guy in white with black backpack) slows down dramatically. I'm willing to bet that the SUV had enough braking power, even given its weight, to have slowed down in time to avoid the collision (since the biker didn't lock up his brakes), BUT I'm also willing to bet he was barely paying attention at that one biker and instead was focusing on the situation that he was being surrounded by a hostile group of people.

Agreed.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

1. Mount this on the top of Range Rover:

2. Wear goggles.
3. Profit!

What I would not give to go out and shot a few those. I friend of mine dad was the license gun collector so it allowed him to have weapons like those and he had Thomson automated and we blew off 100 rounds each it was like $20 for 30 second of fun.

Now you can see why redneck have no money, they just blew off thousands of $ of ammo to have a few minutes of fun.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Dine

i would have shot the one that opened my door and attempted to get in as well as the one that bashed in my window along with any that were invovled in my beating. as for the others i think you might be surprised at how quickly that group mentality would change when the first guy to the doors head exploded... not trying to be graphic or an "internet badass" here but the sound from a 45 alone would stop most of them in their tracks...at least buy me enough time to get away and probably enough to discourage anyone from following me further.

the point im making is this guy got his ass beat, he was ganged up on, his property damaged and his FAMILY threatened. that last one alone calls for whatever action one deems fit. the only "bystanders" were part of the mob...screw em, they should have kept on riding if they had no intention of causing harm.

I have to agree most people are pussies when face with a real threat. I bet if you pulled a gun and pop the closest threat to you most if not all will scatter and take cover. Most criminal do not expect people to fight back and when they do they run like the pussies they are. Most of these folks are only tough because they are in a crowd of people or they think they are tough because they may have weapon.

Growing up I learn this real fast, we had your typical school bullies who picked on everyone and they have the typical loud mouth little shit who would shout people down and pick fights with everyone and no one messed with him since he always had his bigger friends around him. One day he pick on the wrong person which was me, but had not clue I was a boxer and took Karate lesson. Needless to say I pounded his little ass and what did his friend do, they all stood by and let me beat his ass, then I turn to the rest and asked them who was next. They all left quickly and left their friend bleeding sorry ass on the ground.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Here's how I imagine this played out because I've seen it happen. These guys want to do some stunt riding on an open stretch of the HH/WSH. The way to achieve that is to slow down or halt all traffic behind you to let the road clear. You can see a few times in the video that some of the riders were speeding ahead to block other vehicles from entering via the entrance ramps.

My intuition says that the RR driver probably honked at the guys or went around them to gain access to the highway without knowing that there was a gang of dozens. Having driven this road hundreds of times, I have never seen it as empty as it is in the video. Now, after the RR went around said guys, I think they were aggravated and gave chase. They then surrounded the car to bring it to a stop in order to keep the highway clear. Their stupidly chosen way of doing so was to get in front of the RR and slow down. Let's remember, there is a reason why the following distance rule is two seconds longer when following a motorcycle - it's because they stop faster! The dummy on the bike failed to realize this and was then struck by the RR.

This self-imposed instigation, a prime example of when keeping it real goes wrong, caused the injury which then threw the rest of the gang into a feeding frenzy. They slashed the tires of the RR and tried to open the door to drag the driver into the street for a Reginald Denny style beating. He was right to get the fuck out of that situation at any cost as it was clearly a self-defense tactic.

I agree your assessment of the situation is right one. I seen these bikes do the same thing In Philly one time. It is a game with them to slow traffic so they can play. In this situation the guy got caught in the middle of a rabbit dog pack.

[mzem]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Here's how I imagine this played out because I've seen it happen. These guys want to do some stunt riding on an open stretch of the HH/WSH. The way to achieve that is to slow down or halt all traffic behind you to let the road clear. You can see a few times in the video that some of the riders were speeding ahead to block other vehicles from entering via the entrance ramps.

My intuition says that the RR driver probably honked at the guys or went around them to gain access to the highway without knowing that there was a gang of dozens. Having driven this road hundreds of times, I have never seen it as empty as it is in the video. Now, after the RR went around said guys, I think they were aggravated and gave chase. They then surrounded the car to bring it to a stop in order to keep the highway clear. Their stupidly chosen way of doing so was to get in front of the RR and slow down. Let's remember, there is a reason why the following distance rule is two seconds longer when following a motorcycle - it's because they stop faster! The dummy on the bike failed to realize this and was then struck by the RR.

This self-imposed instigation, a prime example of when keeping it real goes wrong, caused the injury which then threw the rest of the gang into a feeding frenzy. They slashed the tires of the RR and tried to open the door to drag the driver into the street for a Reginald Denny style beating. He was right to get the fuck out of that situation at any cost as it was clearly a self-defense tactic.

Well stated. I too noticed that a few of these guys blocked other vehicles from getting on the freeway. Somehow, the RR ended up getting in. More than likely, this pissed off the bikers after the guy probably honked at them. If these douchebags had any brains, they would've let the RR driver through on his merry way. That way, they could've played their silly stunt games After they stopped him and threatened him, all bets are off. I'm glad that he ran one of them over and possibly paralyzed the moron. Threaten someone's life and there's consequences if you end up getting hurt in the process.

BTW, anyone notice this gang's name, Hollywood Stuntz? Lame. Very lame.

[Maestro]

Here are more videos form the person who posted the original RR video. He has pull his youtube account since he obviously has made the world aware of his and his friends activity, but people hacked his account and pulled the videos before he could attempt to delete them

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Here are more videos form the person who posted the original RR video. He was pull his youtube account since he obviously has made the world aware of his and his friends activity, but people hacked his account and pulled the videos before he could attempt to delete them

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

The second to last video features some of them driving the wrong way INTO traffic in the opposing lane. Whoever said this was a "charity ride" needs to get their head examined.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The second to last video features some of them driving the wrong way INTO traffic in the opposing lane. Whoever said this was a "charity ride" needs to get their head examined.

This is true. This ride that took place on Sunday was not to benefit any Charity. I went for a group ride on Saturday in support for the Wounded Warrior Project and met a couple people that mentioned this stunt riding fest was going on the following day.

Charity rides will have a police escort because it is an orgainzed event to benefit a recognized Charity organization. The group ride in this video in question has no escort so it was basically a group of motorcyclists that get together once a year and perform stunts for entertainment.

[Maestro]

I would like to point out that most of the bikes these guys are riding are not street legal, many of them or ATV and Enduro moto cross bikes, which lack any lights or even a place to hang a plate. Why do they ride these, they are cheap easy to work on bikes and obviously most can not afford the crotch rockets the others are driving.

[KingOfJericho]

I see quads flying around the streets fairly often when I visit my in-laws in Queens, especially in the winter months.

The most shocking part of that series of videos is that I didn't see one police vehicle. It's almost like they were riding in a parallel universe version of NYC.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Maestro

What I would not give to go out and shot a few those. I friend of mine dad was the license gun collector so it allowed him to have weapons like those and he had Thomson automated and we blew off 100 rounds each it was like $20 for 30 second of fun.

Now you can see why redneck have no money, they just blew off thousands of $ of ammo to have a few minutes of fun.

You would love Vegas. I got to fire off a real life Tommy Gun, and just go buck wild. I felt like freaking Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I see quads flying around the streets fairly often when I visit my in-laws in Queens, especially in the winter months.

The most shocking part of that series of videos is that I didn't see one police vehicle. It's almost like they were riding in a parallel universe version of NYC.

That is a good point as well. Because this stunt riding event happens annually, not to mentioned it was plastered all over the internet inviting other bikers and spectators days before it was scheduled, you would think NYPD would have put more patrols out.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

That is a good point as well. Because this stunt riding event happens annually, not to mentioned it was plastered all over the internet inviting other bikers and spectators days before it was scheduled, you would think NYPD would have put more patrols out.

Here is the thing... if you were alone in a patrol car and came up behind a group of bikes that didn't yield to your lights and siren what would you do? With so many of them, likely without proper plates etc... they could just sit there. Even if they didn't have proper plates and didn't yield to the officer, if the officer hit them they would have a legal field day with the police.

Say you are the office and you do some how get in the middle of the group when the RR was stopped any one of the 3 times. What do you do? Are you worried about the mob lynching you when you try to intervene?

I think the cops opt to stay away from the biker gangs when they are out riding. They risk vs reward is way out of balance. Best case scenario is that they are able to stop a hand full of bikers.... to do what, issue a traffic citation? So they stay away from them because they can't be seen close to these rides while not doing anything. And doing something is likely more dangerous than it is rewarding.

This is why cops are not obligated to protect citizens. They are not forced by law, job description, or anything for that matter to put their life in harms way for your safety. For this reason, we need laws that allow us to protect ourselves by any means necessary for any particular situation.

[MMMCOOKIES55]

I wish the whole video was shown, would be nice to get the whole story.

[Kensta335]

Originally Posted by MMMCOOKIES335...

I wish the whole video was shown, would be nice to get the whole story.

I watched this one. Didn't clicked on the others on this thread though.

[Titanium3er]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Ok, listen people, i'm not trying to defend the bikers, up until now I was not very educated on the incident and only going off of what I see in the video. You can say that the biker brake checked the RR or you can say that the RR got so close to the bikers that he cause an unsafe incident. I mean, how the hell did he, BY HIMSELF end up in that situation in the first case. Don't you think that you would just slow down to let all the motorcycles pass? I find it hard pressed to believe that they randomly surrounded the RR for no reason at all. My initial reaction is that he somehow pushed his way to the front by being over aggressive in the first place. I think tons of accusations are being made on either side of this case however I just want you all to know that my SINGLE concern is the value that people place on human life. I'm sure that many of you along with myself have witnessed idiot drivers pulling stunts that could result in a biker being run over so before you claim that you would do the same, be sure to understand all circumstances of the situation.

This is a well know event in NY and stuff likes this happens every year, although not quite his extreme. The bikers seem to have been asking for trouble based on what I've seen. The bottom line is that road rage isn't worth it on either end. Everyone needs to relax a little.