[FeeBear]

Tenchi, it is obvious that either you don't know your own religious history or you are in denial.

[deutschmann59]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

Tenchi, it is obvious that either you don't know your own religious history or you are in denial.

I know I said I wasn't going to comment anymore about the topic, but now it seems like we've switched gears to religion. So I'd like to jump in. How do you mean tenchi doesn't know religious history or is in denial? I didn't infer anything like that at all from any of his posts.

I don't see your connection between latin and the modern "powers that be". The reason some things in America are still in latin is because the the entire American government concept of democracy is based on Roman and Greek political philosophies.

[shimshimhada]

The wall with the turrets is still up for grabs.

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

I know I said I wasn't going to comment anymore about the topic, but now it seems like we've switched gears to religion. So I'd like to jump in. How do you mean tenchi doesn't know religious history or is in denial? I didn't infer anything like that at all from any of his posts.

I don't see your connection between latin and the modern "powers that be". The reason some things in America are still in latin is because the the entire American government concept of democracy is based on Roman and Greek political philosophies.

Thank you Sharp1183. Feebear DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF are you talking about? What am I in denial about? You are not making sense. It is obvious that either you are blowing smoke out your tailpipe or English is not your first language.

[magmd]

Originally Posted by CMD

But should they be treated like humans? Yes. We should put them on confortable recliner busses and take them back to the border and drop them off with the authorities.

I understand what you are saying. I will not discuss this much further as everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can respect your POV. If anyone would like to gain some further insight, take 5 min to read this. You are all correct...nothing new going on here. Its just that I would like to help avoid a bad part of history repeating itself.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-cover_x.htm

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by magmd

I understand what you are saying. I will not discuss this much further as everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can respect your POV. If anyone would like to gain some further insight, take 5 min to read this. You are all correct...nothing new going on here. Its just that I would like to help avoid a bad part of history repeating itself.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-cover_x.htm

I definitely don't want LEGAL Hispanic US Citizens being deported. That would defeat the purpose.

[Squawks]

Originally Posted by magmd

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-cover_x.htm

They don't deport people as brashly as they did back in the days. A little more care, more paperwork, among other things are done today during deporting. They even fingerprint deportees.

The article still isn't a reasonable excuse to exclude the idea of deportation.

In response to Nikki who apparently is moving out of FL beacuse illegal immigrants are 'taking up the labor force' - I didn't know you were looking for jobs in the janitorial or burger-flipping industry.

[deutschmann59]

Squawks, I'm glad you came over to join the debate!

[tl_boy]

That is assuming that the business owners are enjoying heavier profits rather than lower prices. I don't know either way, I haven't studied the situation, and wonder if there are any reports on this.

However, in this competitive market, I would not doubt that these lower labor costs do result in lower prices. Of course, we both would be guessing.

FeeBear: by me saying I can't tell the difference, that wasn't a derogatory comment (or at least it wasn't intended to be). I actually sympathize with these people to a large extent, even the illegals. It was a genuine observation. Most people can't tell the difference between koreans, japanese, chinese, and vietnamese either. I was trying to convey how widespread they are in this country.

Originally Posted by CMD

If the illegal aliens were paid a fair wage, it would only effect consumer cost minimally. It's the EMPLOYERS of these ILLEGAL ALIENS that reap the HUGE profits. IMO these employers should be fined heavily and jailed, and the illegals sent back to their homeland--which is where their earnings are sent and their allegiance lies anyway.

Many illegal Mexican immigrant aliens treat the United States like a two-bit hooker: Take everything they can from her, pay her nothing, spit on her and then walk away laughing.

[FeeBear]

The first off, English is my second language. Yes, Spanish is my first language, yet somehow I end with Ivy League Education. Now my typing skills might be a bit off. Now the point with Tenchi was that his comments on translating Anthems etc. I stated that people throughout history have used language as a method of excluding others as well as Skin type and other obvious traits.

"The Bible was translated...so what? The Bible does not belong to one country or language. Bad analogy dude. And show me where the National Anthem has been translated in every language. LOL" That was tenchi quote.

I stated that I actually learn the document " US National Anthem" in Spanish.

Then I simply used another example how people have been prevented in the past to incorporate some items into their own culture.

Then I stated that religion/Bible wasn't always open to everyone. He stated that religion is knows no language or country. I stated he is wrong. Quick history lesson, all Christian religion is derived from one source, until Martin Luther, there was one church. That church in it's Early history was not open to everyone. Slave's weren't allowed to be converted to Christianity, because then they would be on equal footing as their masters. During the Crusades, Muslim weren't given the option to convert they were slaughtered. Even the Church I belong to "Catholics" kept most of the people alienated by holding most services in Latin. Latin was reserved for the rich and educated. So do you see the history? As religion always been tolerant? Wasn't the KKK based on Protestant beliefs? Not clear? Is that not part of our History.

Again Tenchi took a small point of my statement I made bigger deal. In this I don't believe I am wrong. Now being the Fact we are both from Boston, I'd invite you for a beer and we can discuss this in person 2 Christians, religion or immigration. Then you can explain to me what "DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF" means.

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

The first off, English is my second language. Yes, Spanish is my first language, yet somehow I end with Ivy League Education. Now my typing skills might be a bit off. Now the point with Tenchi was that his comments on translating Anthems etc. I stated that people throughout history have used language as a method of excluding others as well as Skin type and other obvious traits.

"The Bible was translated...so what? The Bible does not belong to one country or language. Bad analogy dude. And show me where the National Anthem has been translated in every language. LOL" That was tenchi quote.

I stated that I actually learn the document " US National Anthem" in Spanish.

Then I simply used another example how people have been prevented in the past to incorporate some items into their own culture.

Then I stated that religion/Bible wasn't always open to everyone. He stated that religion is knows no language or country. I stated he is wrong. Quick history lesson, all Christian religion is derived from one source, until Martin Luther, there was one church. That church in it's Early history was not open to everyone. Slave's weren't allowed to be converted to Christianity, because then they would be on equal footing as their masters. During the Crusades, Muslim weren't given the option to convert they were slaughtered. Even the Church I belong to "Catholics" kept most of the people alienated by holding most services in Latin. Latin was reserved for the rich and educated. So do you see the history? As religion always been tolerant? Wasn't the KKK based on Protestant beliefs? Not clear? Is that not part of our History.

Again Tenchi took a small point of my statement I made bigger deal. In this I don't believe I am wrong. Now being the Fact we are both from Boston, I'd invite you for a beer and we can discuss this in person 2 Christians, religion or immigration. Then you can explain to me what "DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF" means.

lol, say out loud DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF.


What I was simply trying to say, was that your Bible analogy about how the Bible has been translated into many languages is not relevant to the current discussion. The Bible is a religion without borders.

Now in your explanation above you are kinda jumping around. you are talking about the times of corruption by the Catholic church and how they used the illiteracy of the masses to control them thru fear and retribution. What does that have to do with our discussion? And during the Crusades, which is another action by Corrupt individuals which used religion to further their greedy causes, people were given the option to convert. Problem was, the only alternative to that was death. Many chose death than to betray their religion. Is the KKK based on Protestant beliefs? Yes, but so are the laws of this country, I don't see your point.

Has religion throughout history been tolerant. No, why? because of those that hide in the guise of the church to only further their own benefits. However, once again....this is irrelevant to our discussion.


You're in Beverly....thats one heck of a drive.

[shimshimhada]

The paintballs will be orange of course.

[FeeBear]

Hey TL_Boy, I apologize about that. Some of minorities have a very short fuss because of their experience. My problem stems that I grew in Boston during bus in the 70's. We had alot of hate at that time. So when I hear/ in this cases read that we can't be told apart, I have flashback. The issue I had with the Dicussion is that we have labelled Mexican's as the main targets. I am not Mexican, I am Dominican-American but if you can't tell us apart being I assuming a White American, then how would anybody who is not spanish be able to? Illegal immigrants may they Canadian/Mexican/Chinese/Korean/Brazilian. The problem I have when we started focusing on a group alot more people get caught in the net. I never stated that I for illegal immigrants, all I hope for we don't pick a group because they are easily identifiable and attack them.
It is all about History. There was a time not so long ago Muslim good American-Muslim were being harassed because we clump them together with Terrorists. How soon will it be before all us Hispanic will have to carry Proof of citizenship or worse all Non-White will have carry Proof of Citizenship.
Don't get me wrong I harbor no hate to White America, I grew up in a mostly Irish neighborhood, my best friend /BestMan in my Wedding was a Italian-Irish American. I just wish you could walk in my shoes for a day.
If you and I drive our BMW into to a place , I wonder how many people would look at us and say, "they must be successful compared to how many people assume we are drug dealers."
I guess to sum it up I honestly think alot of the people on this board are very young, not that there is anything wrong with that but that the young weren't around when America was very different like some of us.

[shimshimhada]

You can kind of tell if they are illegal or not...

[deutschmann59]

Thanks for clearing that up, FeeBear. I kind of feel silly now, because I see what you were getting at.

I agree that throughout history religion hasn't been tolerant to anyone. Thank God we've reached a point where people are allowed to believe whatever they want, whenever they want, and no one will force them to believe otherwise.

That's just one of the many things I find wrong with modern organized religions (warning: more contriversial statements ahead) but do you think Christ would have wanted his followers to go around and kill those that wouldn't believe in him?

Just as a side note, did you know the Roman Catholic Church is actually the first form of Protestantism? Yes that's right, during the Great Schism (1300s), the Church Of Rome broke away from the Orthodox Church, which, by the way, some still consider the Orthodoxy to be the only true Church of Christ on Earth. The Great Schism was caused from wording of the Latin Nicene Creed: filioque.

[FeeBear]

Good point my friend. I forget about that Split between Rome and Greek Orthodox (SP?). Yes, I agree with you I wonder if the "teacher" would approve what we are doing now.

[FeeBear]

Originally Posted by TENCHI

lol, say out loud DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF.


What I was simply trying to say, was that your Bible analogy about how the Bible has been translated into many languages is not relevant to the current discussion. The Bible is a religion without borders.

Now in your explanation above you are kinda jumping around. you are talking about the times of corruption by the Catholic church and how they used the illiteracy of the masses to control them thru fear and retribution. What does that have to do with our discussion? And during the Crusades, which is another action by Corrupt individuals which used religion to further their greedy causes, people were given the option to convert. Problem was, the only alternative to that was death. Many chose death than to betray their religion. Is the KKK based on Protestant beliefs? Yes, but so are the laws of this country, I don't see your point.

Has religion throughout history been tolerant. No, why? because of those that hide in the guise of the church to only further their own benefits. However, once again....this is irrelevant to our discussion.


You're in Beverly....thats one heck of a drive.

But you kinda already made my point or at least the point you were trying discredit. The point you took was about translation, out of everything I stated originally that was you only contention. Fine I am okay with that. Again for all those joining us.

My Quote Tenchi disputes

"PS Shim and Vlad, as much outrage as you might feel about the National Anthem being translated into Spanish is crossing the Line, remember that 2 small points. 1) The National Anthem has been translated in ever language in the world at this time. 2) The most important Book in a lot of people life the Bible (Old and New Testament) is also translated into every language of the world."

That is the point you are refuting. I stated for the record that many people, the christian church, were outraged when the Bible was written or translated to another language besides Latin. Do you dispute that, yes or no. If you dispute that then I suggest you look up the reformation.

Our founding father were Mostly Protestant but they were smart enough for the most part to try and seperate church and state. Yet it pressures outside that of that power structure that decided the woman shoud be allowed to vote, that Black's need Civil Right amendments to protect their rights. Our do you honestly believe any group of people in power willing give some it up without pressure. I grew in Dorchester so 24 miles is nothing if you want that beer. I still don't the get the DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF. Sorry my MIT brain doesn't register it.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

So its official, my mom has to close the restaurant tomororw cause the dish washer and food prep arent coming in. So the only people that will be working tomorrow are me, my mom, and the delivery driver. We cant stay open because if we are busy, then theres no way my mom can cook, prepare, and help me serve. HOWEVER, this doesnt show how much we need them, it just so happens that my brother who is the main chef is out of town. So bad timing. But now i dont work, and no money for me. :mad:

Hmm, kinda late, but thanks Bella!

Your post exactly points out what the U.S. economy is based on:

People who do jobs which average americans refuse to do, people who try living the 'American Dream':

From dish washer to millionaire...

Good night!

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by FeeBear

But you kinda already made my point or at least the point you were trying discredit. The point you took was about translation, out of everything I stated originally that was you only contention. Fine I am okay with that. Again for all those joining us.

My Quote Tenchi disputes

"PS Shim and Vlad, as much outrage as you might feel about the National Anthem being translated into Spanish is crossing the Line, remember that 2 small points. 1) The National Anthem has been translated in ever language in the world at this time. 2) The most important Book in a lot of people life the Bible (Old and New Testament) is also translated into every language of the world."

That is the point you are refuting. I stated for the record that many people, the christian church, were outraged when the Bible was written or translated to another language besides Latin. Do you dispute that, yes or no. If you dispute that then I suggest you look up the reformation.

Our founding father were Mostly Protestant but they were smart enough for the most part to try and seperate church and state. Yet it pressures outside that of that power structure that decided the woman shoud be allowed to vote, that Black's need Civil Right amendments to protect their rights. Our do you honestly believe any group of people in power willing give some it up without pressure. I grew in Dorchester so 24 miles is nothing if you want that beer. I still don't the get the DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF. Sorry my MIT brain doesn't register it.

ok, how about this...




Ok, now I see what you are trying to say. Yes, the CATHOLIC church opposed the PROTESTANT movement to write the Bible in the language other than Latin. Reason being? The Corrupt church officials new that their grasp on the masses would be weakened esp if they no longer had to depend upon the church for their salvation. This gave the power to the masses and away from the Church. But I still don't see how that is relevant to this situation. This is a country founded on ENGLISH. Why? Cause this is AMERICA. The Bible situation is a little different because in reality, the Bible has no reason for being in one language. As I have said, religion is beyond borders.

Please tell me that you get what my DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF now. lol

[TENCHI]

Originally Posted by Dante

Hmm, kinda late, but thanks Bella!

Your post exactly points out what the U.S. economy is based on:

People who do jobs which average americans refuse to do, people who try living the 'American Dream':

From dish washer to millionaire...

Good night!

yes....LEGAL IMMIGRANTS

[USAF BMW]

Originally Posted by TENCHI

Cause they are not. They may be a big part of SoCal Economy or Texas, but alas, the US is made up of 50 states, not 2 or 3.

I cant believe how ingnorant you are. Have you ever been south of Boston. It isn't just California and Texas. Arizona has the busiest border. There are tons of illegals in colorado, idaho, new mexico and utah too. And guess what, they are only moving farther north and east. If you had been to Lousiana or Mississippi, you would know that most of the people doing the grunt work there are illegals. I have never been to the midwest or northwest, but i am sure they are a big part of the population. Its cool if you want to be a hater, but dont be an ignorant fool.

edit

check out what cnn money has to say about it

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news...nomy/index.htm

I am out

[tl_boy]

My brother in law owns hotels in houston. 3 to be exact, and guess what (most of their cleaners , if not all are mexicans), they were told, by their Mexican-American GM (general manager), that if they didn't show today, they'd be FIRED.

Thats how you should have handled the situation IMHO.

Take a day off, lose your job.


EDIT: sORRY, THAT MESSAGE IS FOR BELLABMW.

Originally Posted by magmd

I overlooked this. I am sorry to hear about your family being affected like this. Although I agree with the basic motives of this movement, I disagree with people not showing up to work without permission, and kids not going to school. This is just plain counter productive. I am all for people protesting and boycotting for what they believe in, but bottom line...we all have responsibilities that we cannot just throw out the window, and opportunities- like education, that we cannot afford to waste.

With that...I am retiring from this thread. I apologize if I insulted any of you along the way.