[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It doesn't matter who has or hasn't an EV or if they're intelligent or not, the thread is open to all to express their opinions. There is no one upmanship on here just discussion.

Notice it's always the EV people speaking from a place of moral superiority. These guys will eat up any and all propaganda and get upset if you have an opinion different from their favorite mouth piece.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Notice it's always the EV people speaking from a place of moral superiority. These guys will eat up any and all propaganda and get upset if you have an opinion different from their favorite mouth piece.

I am like this but most people with EVs are not.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by dfox

man, what a time to be alive. The spreading of lies and the ability of so many people to be so convinced that they're right is astounding. But then I reflect on my highschool classmates and am reminded that not everyone was actually intelligent, and they're all out in this world doing stuff, posting on bmw car forums and the like.

... and voting!

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It doesn't matter who has or hasn't an EV or if they're intelligent or not, the thread is open to all to express their opinions.

We are firmly in the age of mass "lie to me to make me feel good".
Not "educate me", nor "I want to learn", nor "I want to use my brain to better myself".

Not in the age of instant gratification and social media attention seeking, where any bimbo can be a trend-setter or news / conspiracy theory authority (is there a difference anymore?).

a

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I am like this but most people with EVs are not.

But I like you.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It doesn't matter who has or hasn't an EV or if they're intelligent or not, the thread is open to all to express their opinions. There is no one upmanship on here just discussion.

Maybe from your perspective. But sitting here as an EV and ICE owner, it's just a constant bombardment from people who do not own EV's saying - EV's catch fire, range is terrible, public charging network can't handle it, etc... And when challenged with experience to the contrary by people who own EV's, it then degrades to personal attacks.

Being anti-mandates is one thing, and I agree, I don't like the mandates. But the reasons for being against EV mandates aren't a reason against EV's as a choice for consumers, but that's what the constant drivel posted in this thread are treated as.

EV's are a great choice for certain consumers, and just like ICE, they come with their own pro's and cons. It's about picking the right tool for the job.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Notice it's always the EV people speaking from a place of moral superiority. These guys will eat up any and all propaganda and get upset if you have an opinion different from their favorite mouth piece.

Zero moral superiority from me. I don't give a shit what you drive, I also think the EV mandates need to go away.

But EV's are a great choice for a lot of people.

The fact that you don't see the anti-ev propaganda posted in this thread as being misleading and in many times outright false is quite ironic, given the moral high ground you're trying to take right now.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by dfox

Zero moral superiority from me. I don't give a shit what you drive, I also think the EV mandates need to go away.

But EV's are a great choice for a lot of people.

The fact that you don't see the anti-ev propaganda posted in this thread as being misleading and in many times outright false is quite ironic, given the moral high ground you're trying to take right now.

Well yeah, I'm not going to root against my own team.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Well yeah, I'm not going to root against my own team.

Same here and no tin pot suit is going to force me into one.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Well yeah, I'm not going to root against my own team.

Hahaha at least you guys can have fun with it

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Notice it's always the EV people speaking from a place of moral superiority. These guys will eat up any and all propaganda and get upset if you have an opinion different from their favorite mouth piece.

both sides are doing it. The anti all EV side eats up any negative story and the gung ho only EV side do the same with positive stories.

For myself, I could care less if anyone else gets an EV. I only got one because it was cheap. I still have 2 other ICE vehicles, that i dump my money in to making them unnecessarily fast, and prefer to drive over the EV.

But the amount of just flat out incorrect statements from the anti ev crowd is significant.

Range is pretty solid on EVs now a days, its dirt cheap to charge, especially if you can charge at home with a level 2 charger, and again, most are significantly cheaper than ICE equivalents to purchase/lease with the amount of manufacturer incentives and tax credits, and youre no safer in an ICE than an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

This thread is really just quite entertaining at this point.

It's either people who own EV's that are pretty even keeled and trying to express what they've learned by owning an EV, or people who have no EV and no intent to ever buy one telling everyone else why they're wrong.

One group has first hand knowledge, the other is just echoing what some other person on social media told them to believe.

man, what a time to be alive. The spreading of lies and the ability of so many people to be so convinced that they're right is astounding. But then I reflect on my highschool classmates and am reminded that not everyone was actually intelligent, and they're all out in this world doing stuff, posting on bmw car forums and the like.

I for one don't tell anyone they are wrong by buying an EV. I am clear about I do not see the point of EV based on the current state of the art, both in automotive performance metrics, lifecycle cost, and operational convenience for a broad use case. EV work great in a somewhat narrow use case and most EV owners agree being able to charge at home and for 150 - 200 mile max daily round trips they are ideal.

I've stated numerous times in this thread I think gasoline/diesel are better choices for mobile fuel vs. a metal battery. None of my opinions are formed by influencers of any type, political, technical, environmental, or social (media). Despite what some here may think, I'm quite well educated on the subject matter and have been following it for nearly 40 years.

Trying to insult us who have a different viewpoint by suggesting we are unintelligent like some of your high school classmates, is as much pointless as it is amusing.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I for one don't tell anyone they are wrong by buying an EV. I am clear about I do not see the point of EV based on the current state of the art, both in automotive performance metrics, lifestyle cost, and operational convenience for a broad use case. EV work great in a somewhat narrow use case and most EV owners agree being able to charge at home and for 150 - 200 mile max daily round trips they are ideal.

I've stated numerous times in this thread I think gasoline/diesel are better choices for mobile fuel vs. a metal battery. None of my opinions are formed by influencers of any type, political, technical, environmental, or social (media). Despite what some here may think, I'm quite well educated on the subject matter and have been following it for nearly 40 years.

Trying to insult us who have a different viewpoint by suggesting we are unintelligent like some of your high school classmates, is as much pointless as it is amusing.

Your statements above are all pretty reasonable, nothing to argue with. Unfortunately this thread is not filled with such reasonable, level-headed posts...

EV use case is likely broader than "somewhat narrow" implies, but that's fine. It's about having the choice for EV because it does make a lot of sense for those willing to accept it.

Plenty of posts arguing that EV is detrimental to the environment, EV's are going to catch everyone on fire, etc... those are the problematic things that are not based in reality, but based in fear mongering and perpetrated by the fringes of social media.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

Your statements above are all pretty reasonable, nothing to argue with. Unfortunately this thread is not filled with such reasonable, level-headed posts...

EV use case is likely broader than "somewhat narrow" implies, but that's fine. It's about having the choice for EV because it does make a lot of sense for those willing to accept it.

Plenty of posts arguing that EV is detrimental to the environment, EV's are going to catch everyone on fire, etc... those are the problematic things that are not based in reality, but based in fear mongering and perpetrated by the fringes of social media.

Yeah, there are some fringe posts, certainly. I take them with a grain of salt, and find most entertaining. I'm all for the free market development of the EV product as another choice for consumers. But trying to say EV are the panacea for anthropogenic climate change to me is just as much hokum as the certanity that all EV batteries eventually catch fire and that's why the architecture should be snuffed out (pun kinda intended ).

[lakefront]

Originally Posted by dfox

Your statements above are all pretty reasonable, nothing to argue with. Unfortunately this thread is not filled with such reasonable, level-headed posts...

EV use case is likely broader than "somewhat narrow" implies, but that's fine. It's about having the choice for EV because it does make a lot of sense for those willing to accept it.

Plenty of posts arguing that EV is detrimental to the environment, EV's are going to catch everyone on fire, etc... those are the problematic things that are not based in reality, but based in fear mongering and perpetrated by the fringes of social media.

Agree with your last statement.....the important point is the sentence above. You now have a "choice" to buy an EV. Great, enjoy it for your situation. The idea that Evs work for EVERYONE and they'll have to in 10 years, is just not practical. The majority of the country and especially the world do not have acess to charging at home. Try not charging at home and have an EV as your only vehicle and see how that works out. This is what this thread should be about instead of endless bitching about "what I prefer" to drive. Sorry if this is too "political"

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yeah, there are some fringe posts, certainly. I take them with a grain of salt, and find most entertaining. I'm all for the free market development of the EV product as another choice for consumers. But trying to say EV are the panacea for anthropogenic climate change to me is just as much hokum as the certanity that all EV batteries eventually catch fire and that's why the architecture should be snuffed out (pun kinda intended ).

The thing is no one is arguing the first part of your bolded statement in this thread. At least not that I've seen, however you have quite a few arguing the second.

[M5Rick]

Would you have a friend park their full EV if they have one right next to your house if you have a driveway say under a car port..Me? No frigging way, entrance is blocked by a bollard.

[M5Rick]

No prizes for guessing why, if you still don't know why here's a clue for the unwary.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=la...38_WNDD6I,st:0
EV's are not the future.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The thing is no one is arguing the first part of your bolded statement in this thread. At least not that I've seen, however you have quite a few arguing the second.

Early on in this thread are plenty of posts about the climate impact (err... non-impact) of EVs. Battery fires while frequency maybe over exaggerated are still an artifact of the technology. As gblansten says, a person's risk tolerance is what makes that relevant to the discussion. Statistics being the currency of internet fodder for arguments, it's hard to get real unbiased data. I can only go on my experience, which in some 45 years of driving and some 1.5M miles, I've seen just one car fire; ironically (for me) it was a BMW E90. I think it is more the circumstances and ferocity of EV battery fires that is really at issue, which I think is a fair concern.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

both sides are doing it. The anti all EV side eats up any negative story and the gung ho only EV side do the same with positive stories.

For myself, I could care less if anyone else gets an EV. I only got one because it was cheap. I still have 2 other ICE vehicles, that i dump my money in to making them unnecessarily fast, and prefer to drive over the EV.

But the amount of just flat out incorrect statements from the anti ev crowd is significant.

Range is pretty solid on EVs now a days, its dirt cheap to charge, especially if you can charge at home with a level 2 charger, and again, most are significantly cheaper than ICE equivalents to purchase/lease with the amount of manufacturer incentives and tax credits, and you're no safer in an ICE than an EV.

I still have to argue range is still an issue, especially in winter in the northern climates. And its range anxiety really only related to recharge speed. Even 20 minutes to recover some 180 miles of range in the winter is not tolerable to most of the market who have an expectation of 5-minute range recovery at nearly any location/area they drive.

Create an affordable EV with 350 miles of battery range and 5 minutes of recharge time with uncompromised cabin heat in the winter, and I'd bet you'd have nearly 80% market adoption.

[AmuroRay]

I make no apologies for my rhetoric, I hate EVs and there is no middle ground. It's an Iwatch vs a Swiss movement.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Would you have a friend park their full EV if they have one right next to your house if you have a driveway say under a car port..Me? No frigging way, entrance is blocked by a bollard.

WTF is this FUD?

I parked an EV in my garage for 4 years and never missed a wink of sleep.

Originally Posted by M5Rick

No prizes for guessing why, if you still don't know why here's a clue for the unwary.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=la...38_WNDD6I,st:0
EV's are not the future.

ICE car FAR more likely to catch fire.

You want to try an anti-EV argument, try a real one.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I make no apologies for my rhetoric, I hate EVs and there is no middle ground. It's an Iwatch vs a Swiss movement.

Yeah, but most people don't wear watches with Swiss movement. They wear quartz movement at best, or usually some kind of other watch besides iWatch. So you're talking about the square minority of the population.

I agree, EV vs. a performance or enthusiast ICE loses. But EV vs. any kind of regular-ass ICE car / CUV / SUV for duty that 80% of the public uses it for (commuting and trips)...EV is better.