[Robin_NL]

Kelly's mom is Dutch. Kelly's dad is Nelson. And that did matter

Cheers
Robin

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Wrong. The "only reason" Verstappen won the Abu Dhabi race was because he was the first to reach the chequered flag (without penalty). It ain't over till it's over. That's how it works.

Recap. During the last lap Hamilton decided on restart, on a track known for difficult overtaking and featuring aggressive curbs sections. Both Hamilton and Verstappen had to go all-in: all or nothing in a one-on-one battle, with Hamilton having the benefit of the lead. We will never know how the race would have ended if also Hamilton had been sitting on fresh soft tires after a hypothetical red flag. Could have ended as well with yet another controversial entanglement, a "cut-the-corner" or one of them making a pilot error and ending outside the track limits. You can hear in on-board communication that Mercedes rejected the suggestion of a pitstop "to keep track position". A pitstop made sense, but Mercedes was afraid of losing the P1 benefit in favor of Verstappen. That was a high-risk gamble mixed with invincibility hubris. Red Bull Racing pitted. That was a sensible gamble, calculated risk. And effectively, Hamilton preserved the P1 track position, but lost it in the final corners. Also, if Latifi would not have crashed, Hamilton was still at risk with his old hard tires for a sudden tire failure on the aggressive curbs he got reminded about by his team in the late stage of the race (remember Verstappen's tire failure in Azerbaijan on lap 46 out of 51 while leading the race: that was also highly unlikely, but it happened nevertheless).

But all speculation is for the history books: Hamilton was beaten fair and square during the final lap sprint.

Max didn't reach the checkered flag first without penalty. It's just that he wasn't the one that broke the rules, Masi did.

It ain't over til it's over assumes the sport is being governed fairly without corruption to influence the results.

Who offered Mercedes the ability to pit and KEEP their track position??? Again, by the way the rules are written, Mercedes could NOT pit because the rules suggested there weren't enough remaining laps to end the safety car. The safety car was supposed to do one more lap after ALL the lapped cars unlapped themselves. Mercedes can't make an assumption that the rule will be modified or broken and bring HAM into the pits only for the rule to be upheld and the race ends behind the SC. Do you understand that? Had Max won the race behind the SC, it would be a 100% legitimate win just like Spa.

Max's win was not legitimate and it will always be considered with an asterisk no matter how much time passes. That's the downside to not winning on your own merit.

[Robin_NL]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sore_Losers

The Sore Losers is a Belgian rock band, formed in 2009....

Cheers
Robin

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sore_Losers





Cheers
Robin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

Cheating generally describes various actions designed to subvert rules in order to obtain unfair advantages.

Cheers

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M2CS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating





Cheers

When I googled cheaters I got this one....




Cheers
Robin

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

When I googled cheaters I got this one....


Cheers
Robin

Google algorithm is designed to provide your location with false information. But the two people you're looking at beat the crap out of Redbull in the final race and they can be forever proud of that. Redbull's performance was so poor they could not win on their own. That's how the 2021 championship will go down in history.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

When I googled cheaters I got this one....




Cheers
Robin

1

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Google algorithm is designed to provide your location with false information. But the two people you're looking at beat the crap out of Redbull in the final race and they can be forever proud of that. Redbull's performance was so poor they could not win on their own. That's how the 2021 championship will go down in history.

Cheers
Robin

[M5Rick]

Probably Max's fave track now

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Probably Max's fave track now

I want it all-Toto (no not the band)
Breakthru- Max
Another one bites the dust-Horner
We are the champions-RBR/Mercedes

Cheers
Robin

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Cheers
Robin

I haven't seen that before. It goes without saying that performance enhancing drugs are banned in any sport.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Max's win was not legitimate and it will always be considered with an asterisk no matter how much time passes. That's the downside to not winning on your own merit.

The decision that Max Verstappen won the 2021 WDC (based on all 2021 results, rather than merely the final race), stands as long as it's not overturned.

And about the "asterisk" and "legitimate world champion". As regards championship points, victories, podiums, pole positions, 'fastest lap of the race' and P1/P2: Hamilton did not beat Verstappen on any of those. The final lap was just a fitting finale, the cherry on the cake - the cake itself was prepared throughout the season of 22 races.

[M5Rick]

Surprisingly I liked Ocon's comment the best.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by forza1976

1 for Max

Maybe not a 100% tainted season but certainly a tainted last race victory.

Masigate????

[Robin_NL]

Cheers
Robin

[dmatre]

A legitimate question to those alleging illegality:

On what have you based the belief that section 48.12 supersedes both 48.13 and 15.3?

It seems that there are conflicting rules in play. Is your interpretation based on other rules/precedents/interpretations? If yes, please share.

If 48.12 doesn't supersede both, then what other illegality might there be?

[MontyB1]

An interesting view from the BBC pundit and it seems that the the FIA are already making changes with a new Director of F1 to be appointed arguable the successor to Charlie Whiting. Few teams have been happy with Michael Masi for the past few years and as the article sites other issues and this isn't just Redbull and Mercedes, F1 does go beyond them!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by dmatre

A legitimate question to those alleging illegality:

On what have you based the belief that section 48.12 supersedes both 48.13 and 15.3?

It seems that there are conflicting rules in play. Is your interpretation based on other rules/precedents/interpretations? If yes, please share.

If 48.12 doesn't supersede both, then what other illegality might there be?

I've already shared some of the other precedents there is one already detailed in the BBC article I've referenced before.

In short ALL cars should be un-lapped as clarified last year by Masi himself, so that is a clear view and precedent that had been set and motive that it was for safety.

[M5Rick]

Ham lost out for a change, his craps dice came out wrong. RB did the opposite to Merc and Ham missed the turning and drove into a dead end.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Ham lost out for a change, his craps dice came out wrong. RB did the opposite to Merc and Ham missed the turning and drove into a dead end.

There is some very very very weak conspirational stuff on social media that Latifi 'deliberately' crashed.... because Lewis' tyres probably would not last until the end of the race, thus causing SC or code red.....and the rest is history.....

Do not shoot the messenger please....

Cheers
Robin

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

There is some very very very weak conspirational stuff on social media that Latifi 'deliberately' crashed.... because Lewis' tyres probably would not last until the end of the race, thus causing SC or code red.....and the rest is history.....

Do not shoot the messenger please....

Cheers
Robin

This is what social media consists of a lot, speculation and ad hoc which is why I don't belong to any sm groups and can't believe some ppl and especially youngsters that base their daily lives on these.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I've already shared some of the other precedents there is one already detailed in the BBC article I've referenced before.

In short ALL cars should be un-lapped as clarified last year by Masi himself, so that is a clear view and precedent that had been set and motive that it was for safety.

The article you cite speaks of consistency, not of which rule/section takes precedence in the event that two conflict.

If we are free to pick & choose which are important, then why is 48.12 more important than 15.3, which gives the race director control over the safety car, and mentions nothing about lap cars or any other parameter?