[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Anyone else notice the members he doesn't debate are the same members he has on ignore? He is scared to debate them...

Lol.

He reminds me of a couple of guys that used to be on the forum. Trolls.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

I love my ‘22 Tesla S Plaid. I actually uttered these words over the weekend to my wife:”I actually prefer driving this car (the Tesla) over the M5”. A full Dinan car with HREs. The Tesla makes ICE feel soooooo dated.

Exactly.

The best I can describe everything people are posting here besides open minded people like us is called, DENIAL.

People can’t even debate properly lmao smh

[chassis]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I am saying you will see a gigantic swing come 2030 where it leans heavily on EV taking the majority of the roads. While i don't doubt MANY will still own or keep an ICE in their possession (like i am), the fact of the matter is EV will be dominating ICE come 2030.

Do you have an opinion that can be expressed in numbers? How do you quantify “leans heavily”? Please elaborate on “majority of the roads”. Thanks.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chassis

Do you have an opinion that can be expressed in numbers? How do you quantify “leans heavily”? Please elaborate on “majority of the roads”. Thanks.

What year is it?

I said by 2030 you will see a swing.

It’s happening already. Ev options for every car maker increases each year, ice options are lessening each year.

2030 you’ll see lol

It’s laughable now I know. Sounds crazy. Sounds stupid.

I’ll have the last laugh lol

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by chassis

Do you have an opinion that can be expressed in numbers? How do you quantify “leans heavily”? Please elaborate on “majority of the roads”. Thanks.

He seems to rely heavily on his views and his ability to pick up young women on Tinder. When presented with actual data and common sense arguments he falls back on telling us how little we know and that EV's will dominate the market by 2030 and that Tesla is the greatest automobile on the planet.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

What year is it?

I said by 2030 you will see a swing.

It’s happening already. Ev options for every car maker increases each year, ice options are lessening each year.

2030 you’ll see lol

It’s laughable now I know. Sounds crazy. Sounds stupid.

I’ll have the last laugh lol

Do you have a quantified view of the swing you expect in 2030?

[Murf the Surf]

There are approximately 75 Million new cars manufactured every year currently, about 3% are EV's, that's 2,250,000 a year. The resources to supply the batteries for 75 Million EV's a year is staggering. The ecological damage from the mining with be significant, not to mention the child labour being used in many developing nations. The ramp up will drive costs significantly. Then there is the requirement to double the electrical output to supply electric home and commercial heating, plus power all of these EV's. Then the infrastructure to support the delivery of the hydro to homes, businesses and non-residential charging stations. The government red tape, environmental assessments, time to build and cost. This power won't come from wind and solar despite what the green energy enthusiasts tell you. This is going to come from nuclear, which if construction started today it would take at least 5 years to construct. If government actually wanted to do this and they started now it would take 5 years before they could break ground. Electricity prices are going to skyrocket.

There are facts to support my position that are very easy to find, and then there is the common sense of the argument. If you have dealt with government for anything you know the red tape and largess is staggering for even simple construction projects.

I don't know if EVs will be the primary means of transportation at some point but I'm pretty confident in saying it won't be in 2030.

[chad86tsi]

While we are fact checking the masterdebater, I'd like clarification on this:

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Battery technology is already improving, ironically that process is accelerating rapidly ever since the "2035 gas ban".

The California 2035 gas ban was announced August 25, 2022. or 96 days ago.

what has accelerated rapidly in the last 96 days?

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

There are approximately 75 Million new cars manufactured every year currently, about 3% are EV's, that's 2,250,000 a year. The resources to supply the batteries for 75 Million EV's a year is staggering. The ecological damage from the mining with be significant, not to mention the child labour being used in many developing nations. The ramp up will drive costs significantly. Then there is the requirement to double the electrical output to supply electric home and commercial heating, plus power all of these EV's. Then the infrastructure to support the delivery of the hydro to homes, businesses and non-residential charging stations. The government red tape, environmental assessments, time to build and cost. This power won't come from wind and solar despite what the green energy enthusiasts tell you. This is going to come from nuclear, which if construction started today it would take at least 5 years to construct. If government actually wanted to do this and they started now it would take 5 years before they could break ground. Electricity prices are going to skyrocket.

There are facts to support my position that are very easy to find, and then there is the common sense of the argument. If you have health with government for anything you know the red tape and largess is staggering for even simple construction projects.

I don't know if EVs will be the primary means of transportation at some point but I'm pretty confident in saying it won't be in 2030.

I thought we were arguing with feelings and opinions
And here you come with your damn facts and evidence

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

There are approximately 75 Million new cars manufactured every year currently, about 3% are EV's, that's 2,250,000 a year. The resources to supply the batteries for 75 Million EV's a year is staggering. The ecological damage from the mining with be significant, not to mention the child labour being used in many developing nations. The ramp up will drive costs significantly. Then there is the requirement to double the electrical output to supply electric home and commercial heating, plus power all of these EV's. Then the infrastructure to support the delivery of the hydro to homes, businesses and non-residential charging stations. The government red tape, environmental assessments, time to build and cost. This power won't come from wind and solar despite what the green energy enthusiasts tell you. This is going to come from nuclear, which if construction started today it would take at least 5 years to construct. If government actually wanted to do this and they started now it would take 5 years before they could break ground. Electricity prices are going to skyrocket.

There are facts to support my position that are very easy to find, and then there is the common sense of the argument. If you have health with government for anything you know the red tape and largess is staggering for even simple construction projects.

I don't know if EVs will be the primary means of transportation at some point but I'm pretty confident in saying it won't be in 2030.

Don't forget that for the grid to ever be able to turn green energy into 24 hour EV recharge supply, there will be a need for a massive amount of battery capacity. Probably triple whatever the EVs will consume. In order to charge a 100KW EV pack, there will need to be 200-400KW of packs in the grid storage matrix because they cant be reliably cycled to the same depth and still last as long as they need to. Take whatever your worst case battery resource scenarios is and multiply by ~3x. More if you also want to cover the loss of natural gas heating.

The future is great.

[Murf the Surf]

Toyota EV achieves only 47% of advertised range in winter conditions. So much for range anxiety not being a thing.

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/toyota...ertised-range/

[Murf the Surf]

We keep getting told that the battery technology will get better but we've yet to see significant improvements to ease the real concern about range. Sure for a city commuter this is less of an issue but there is a decent segment of the population who don't live in cities and have farther to drive. That and you put any load on (towing) and range can be cut to 1/3. Just look at the Ford Lightning.

These problems will eventually be overcome but I don't see it happening as fast as some would hope.

[zx10guy]

It's a repeating nightmare getting some people to understand what they're hitching their wagons to with this push for EVs in such a short time frame.

I've posted in two incidents with power outages in my area which is a major metropolitan center. I myself experienced a power outage in my area affecting 3200 customers with no weather situation. Still don't know what caused the outage lasting 1.5 hours. Then the next day a plane flies into some power lines. I know it's freak thing. But the grid didn't have the resiliency to deal with minimizing the impact. 85,000 affected customers and two major hospitals. Then the resulting fallout even after power was restored. The entire county's public school system shut down and a very busy subway line had some station shut downs. <sarcasm>Our power grid is definitely ready to handle the additional load of all these new EVs.</sarcasm>

And those that think the Feds are going to be able to positively push this agenda/timeline, think again. I think we all remember this little event called 9/11. I worked as a Federal contractor at the time. I saw the big wake up call of how there were so many deficiencies in the US' ability to respond to a major domestic disaster. New agencies were stood up and lots of funding was allocated. We're 21 years past that horrible day and I can honestly say much hasn't really changed. Even simple things such as being able to fix the horrible traffic situation in the DC area hasn't happened. The evacuation of people from all high risk targets was a total nightmare. The building I was working in took two hours to evacuate on that day. I can honestly say two hours for that same building would be wishful thinking now. It'll probably be more on the lines of 3 to 4 hours now.

There was a definite national security issue with mandates and funding. Yet we're really no better off than we were since given 21 years for things to be done.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

It's a repeating nightmare getting some people to understand what they're hitching their wagons to with this push for EVs in such a short time frame.

I've posted in two incidents with power outages in my area which is a major metropolitan center. I myself experienced a power outage in my area affecting 3200 customers with no weather situation. Still don't know what caused the outage lasting 1.5 hours. Then the next day a plane flies into some power lines. I know it's freak thing. But the grid didn't have the resiliency to deal with minimizing the impact. 85,000 affected customers and two major hospitals. Then the resulting fallout even after power was restored. The entire county's public school system shut down and a very busy subway line had some station shut downs. <sarcasm>Our power grid is definitely ready to handle the additional load of all these new EVs.</sarcasm>

And those that think the Feds are going to be able to positively push this agenda/timeline, think again. I think we all remember this little event called 9/11. I worked as a Federal contractor at the time. I saw the big wake up call of how there were so many deficiencies in the US' ability to respond to a major domestic disaster. New agencies were stood up and lots of funding was allocated. We're 21 years past that horrible day and I can honestly say much hasn't really changed. Even simple things such as being able to fix the horrible traffic situation in the DC area hasn't happened. The evacuation of people from all high risk targets was a total nightmare. The building I was working in took two hours to evacuate on that day. I can honestly say two hours for that same building would be wishful thinking now. It'll probably be more on the lines of 3 to 4 hours now.

There was a definite national security issue with mandates and funding. Yet we're really no better off than we were since given 21 years for things to be done.

I don't know, I kind of find TSA body searches exciting and worth the long lines to wait for my turn. And look at how much more civil and safe passengers behave mid-flight.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Toyota EV achieves only 47% of advertised range in winter conditions. So much for range anxiety not being a thing.

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/toyota...ertised-range/

And that same "cold battery" physics applies to storage batteries.

[Murf the Surf]

I know this was a few years ago but I remember the entire eastern seaboard being blacked out for about a week. Can you imagine all eat emergency services being reliant on EV's? I fear the rush to this EV Nirvana might be a bit hasty. \\https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...ackout/567410/

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

I don't know, I kind of find TSA body searches exciting and worth the long lines to wait for my turn. And look at how much more civil and safe passengers behave mid-flight.

This reminded me of a situation that happened to my friend. He was going through TSA security and was pulled aside for further "inspection". My friend has an interesting sense of humor. He told me what he said to the TSA officer but I can't remember in jest. Apparently, the officer didn't find his humor to his liking. Friend said, TSA officer put on some latex gloves, told him to hold on to his belt loops, and then shoves his hand down the front of his pants. Let's just say when the officer's hand came back out, it had some hairs with it.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chassis

Do you have a quantified view of the swing you expect in 2030?

Did anyone predict any swing in ev sales the past 3 years? Hell make it 2 years? Nope.

As car makers make more ev’s and eliminate ice options From their lineup is going to show you that swing.

Give it time. I know it’s hard to accept but hey denial is actually detrimental to your health.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I know this was a few years ago but I remember the entire eastern seaboard being blacked out for about a week. Can you imagine all eat emergency services being reliant on EV's? I fear the rush to this EV Nirvana might be a bit hasty. \\https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...ackout/567410/

Over here the gov. bozos got the diesel thing completely wrong and now the EV scenario is doomed to fail with us to pay for it massively and they? shrug their shoulders and pat themselves on the back proud at the billions they will have wasted citing carbon zero.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Did anyone predict any swing in ev sales the past 3 years? Hell make it 2 years? Nope.

As car makers make more ev’s and eliminate ice options From their lineup is going to show you that swing.

Give it time. I know it’s hard to accept but hey denial is actually detrimental to your health.

Lots of people did. Here is a google search with a date cutoff of 3 years ago.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pred...29%2F2019&tbm=

This is an interesting chart that came from the search above.



https://www.connect4climate.org/info...ional-vehicles

[BGM-M3COMP]

Cool. A chart about what ifs lol.

Still can’t debunk what I just said above but it’s ok.

Let’s keep going.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

While we are fact checking the masterdebater, I'd like clarification on this:



The California 2035 gas ban was announced August 25, 2022. or 96 days ago.

what has accelerated rapidly in the last 96 days?

California's brownouts