[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by MiamiFan13

I wouldn't consider it a "base" motor. The 3.0 turbo motors have been embarrassing many cars for a while...and it bulletproof. This performance is not a surprise.

These acceleration numbers are not too far off a Mustang GT, lol.
Personally I would take the M60 and have the power to effortlessly out accelerate 90% of the cars out there while still getting 90 MPGe.

[Boosted_8]

Originally Posted by 8GranCouper

That's fair but I call it the base engine because the actual upgrade is the S58. The B58 is just BMW's workhorse 6-cylinder yet it's already comparable to the performance of TTV8's from a decade ago. Like the 0-60 is only .1 seconds slower to 60 and .4 seconds slower to the quarter mile than the G30 M550i.

Quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the new B58 measurement on a dyno is comparable to the new Stellantis high-output inline 6 that they claim makes some 530 HP. Except this one can net you fuel economy comparable to a Camry unlike the Stellantis gas guzzler.

I think they were running the duff software on those tests, this is what my 550 runs stock:

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by tna3

Take what you want from C&D with a grain of salt but unfortunately the numb steering is the common denominator in all the reviews domestic or foreign. If only Cadillac chassis tuning could mate with BMW powertrains.

Yes, but no electric steering provides good feedback. Running tire pressure a bit lower will help; they are too high anyways (particularly for the US market).

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

You know, people keep complaining about the size. But what car has not gotten bigger over the years. Even the Honda Accord is a giant compared to the one my Mom had in 1976. Don't even get me started on others. I had a 1993 325i. If you were to sit it next to a modern 330i it would be the same thing. The 7 series has grown as well. And the X5 is quite a bit larger than the original. People just don't notice it because they are looking at one generation to the next, and not looking at multiple generations.

I am sure there are some G30 owners out there, (Maybe not on this Forum) That complained that they wish their car was just a little bit larger with better rear legroom. But you won't see them here complaining because they are probably chomping at the bit to get a new G60.

Same with looks. I bet there are several people who bought or leased their G30 in early 2023, and did not know the G60 was coming out and are now pissed they didn't wait. So now they have last gen model that is only a year old, and has now depreciated even more because of it. I know I was looking at a 2022 G30 540i, but decided to wait until I was closer to the end of my tour. Now that I have, I am grateful I did. There is no worse feeling than buying a brand new car that suddenly becomes outdated over night. Those are at least some of the haters that are now saying how much they LOVE their 2023 G30 and HATE the new G60. Mainly because they can't justify trading in the car they are paying well over $1000.00 a month for without taking a serious loss on the depreciation. It's one [...]

Sure, it’s conceivable there are those people that you describe.

It’s on you if you buy the last year G30 and didn’t know about the G60. It’s not hard to google when a model is ending. Just my opinion, but that just seems like minimal research to make a $70k+ purchase.

There are also those that accelerated their purchase to get a G30 in 2023 before it ended production.

I think everyone that likes the G60 should buy one. More power to you. I think those complaining about size would agree with you about all cars becoming so large. If they made the 3 series with a little nicer interior detail and options, I think there are G30 buyers that would’ve preferred the 3 series for the smaller size. But they also make you choose between luxury and size, so it’s not a simple decision based on one factor.

Again, I don’t think anyone that loves the G60 is wrong. It’s a subjective opinion. I also think the complaints of those of us that are disappointed with the G60 are just as valid. It just depends on what you’re looking for.

[AiredaleDad]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Sure, it’s conceivable there are those people that you describe.

It’s on you if you buy the last year G30 and didn’t know about the G60. It’s not hard to google when a model is ending. Just my opinion, but that just seems like minimal research to make a $70k+ purchase.

There are also those that accelerated their purchase to get a G30 in 2023 before it ended production.

I think everyone that likes the G60 should buy one. More power to you. I think those complaining about size would agree with you about all cars becoming so large. If they made the 3 series with a little nicer interior detail and options, I think there are G30 buyers that would’ve preferred the 3 series for the smaller size. But they also make you choose between luxury and size, so it’s not a simple decision based on one factor.

Again, I don’t think anyone that loves the G60 is wrong. It’s a subjective opinion. I also think the complaints of those of us that are disappointed with the G60 are just as valid. It just depends on what you’re looking for.

I think BMW does that on purpose based on the market demographic they are aiming at. The options, colors, Luxury vs Sporty factors are based on the target demographic's age, average income, and needs/desires. That's why you see the differences between the series. You probably won't see too many people in their 20's or 30's driving a 5er. If you do, it's probably Dad's or Mom's car they borrowed. Most will want the sportier 3 or 4 series. Care more about performance than comfort/luxury. Same way you likely won't see a lot of people in their 50's or 60's looking at buying a 3 or 4 series if they can afford a 5er. At least not as the primary family car. Maybe their weekend "Fun Car". But not their getting stuck in traffic on the way to and from work car.

I bet if you had a way to know the age bracket of the people in this G60 forum It would probably be people between their late 40's to mid to late 60's. A few are outside that group, but the vast majority fall in there just based on the language they use and the opinions they have developed "over the years and many cars they have owned" factor.

Then go look at the G20 and G22 forums and you can tell the difference in the apparent age of the people posting. Most are probably in their 30's-mid 40's. Again, there are exceptions, but for the most part it holds true.

And if you look at the G42 you will find the ones in their 20's and early 30's with their first BMW. A lot of them are young professionals who are buying/being gifted their first BMW.

I bought my first BMW (325i) at 26. I would not even consider a 330i now. Maybe an M340i as a toy. More likely an M440iX Coupe. But not for my main daily driver.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

I think BMW does that on purpose based on the market demographic they are aiming at. The options, colors, Luxury vs Sporty factors are based on the target demographic's age, average income, and needs/desires. That's why you see the differences between the series. You probably won't see too many people in their 20's or 30's driving a 5er. If you do, it's probably Dad's or Mom's car they borrowed. Most will want the sportier 3 or 4 series. Care more about performance than comfort/luxury. Same way you likely won't see a lot of people in their 50's or 60's looking at buying a 3 or 4 series if they can afford a 5er. At least not as the primary family car. Maybe their weekend "Fun Car". But not their getting stuck in traffic on the way to and from work car.

I bet if you had a way to know the age bracket of the people in this G60 forum It would probably be people between their late 40's to mid to late 60's. A few are outside that group, but the vast majority fall in there just based on the language they use and the opinions they have developed "over the years and many cars they have owned" factor.

Then go look at the G20 and G22 forums and you can tell the difference in the apparent age of the people posting. Most are probably in their 30's-mid 40's. Again, there are exceptions, but for the most part it holds true.

And if you look at the G42 you will find the ones in their 20's and early 30's with their first BMW. A lot of them are young professionals who are buying/being gifted their first BMW.

I bought my first BMW (325i) at 26. I would not even [...]

Of course. That’s obvious.

BMW and the 5 series have historically filled the need for someone that wants both sport and comfort, with daily use practicality. With the G60, they’ve clearly sacrificed some sport and emphasized some modern luxury, while also going with a minimalistic interior approach. It shouldn’t be surprising or offensive that some previous 5 series owners aren’t into the new direction of the G60.

Your post is all about segmenting and I don’t have an argument with any of it. I never said anything about a 3 series owner not wanting a 5 series. I have just listed some reasons that previous 5 series owners aren’t as excited by what we’ve seen in the G60, so far. And also stated that for those that love it, I’m happy for them and think they should buy them up like hot cakes. I’m not trying to be controversial here.

[Scrapula]

Definitely true about ages. My dream car when I was young was a 325i. Now, I am 67 and preordered the i5 M60 last year just from pictures. I loved the look with the wider grille and the sharp creases. My friend saw mine, went to the dealer and came home with an i7 instead. That’s how BMW works. Appeal to the young, upwardly mobile adults and bring them into the fold.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

I think BMW does that on purpose based on the market demographic they are aiming at. The options, colors, Luxury vs Sporty factors are based on the target demographic's age, average income, and needs/desires. That's why you see the differences between the series. You probably won't see too many people in their 20's or 30's driving a 5er. If you do, it's probably Dad's or Mom's car they borrowed. Most will want the sportier 3 or 4 series. Care more about performance than comfort/luxury. Same way you likely won't see a lot of people in their 50's or 60's looking at buying a 3 or 4 series if they can afford a 5er. At least not as the primary family car. Maybe their weekend "Fun Car". But not their getting stuck in traffic on the way to and from work car.

I bet if you had a way to know the age bracket of the people in this G60 forum It would probably be people between their late 40's to mid to late 60's. A few are outside that group, but the vast majority fall in there just based on the language they use and the opinions they have developed "over the years and many cars they have owned" factor.

Then go look at the G20 and G22 forums and you can tell the difference in the apparent age of the people posting. Most are probably in their 30's-mid 40's. Again, there are exceptions, but for the most part it holds true.

And if you look at the G42 you will find the ones in their 20's and early 30's with their first BMW. A lot of them are young professionals who are buying/being gifted their first BMW.

I bought my first BMW (325i) at 26. I would not even consider a 330i now. Maybe an M340i as a toy. More likely an M440iX Coupe. But not for my main daily driver.

The G20/21 and G30/31 are so close in wheelbase and weight that it almost doesn't matter unless you are talking about the M versions, where the M3 will definitely put on a better show than the nose-heavy V8.

For anything with an I6 or smaller up front, the differences in the drive are minimal. I tested an M340 Touring (which was actually heaver than my 5er!) before picking up the G31 and although the shorter wheelbase made it a bit more agile, the car was still a fair bit removed from a real sports car (in terms of size/weight), and the M-Sport suspensions are pretty road biased in both the 3 and 5.

It hardly matters anymore.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Neusser

The G20/21 and G30/31 are so close in wheelbase and weight that it almost doesn't matter unless you are talking about the M versions, where the M3 will definitely put on a better show than the nose-heavy V8.

For anything with an I6 or smaller up front, the differences in the drive are minimal. I tested an M340 Touring (which was actually heaver than my 5er!) before picking up the G31 and although the shorter wheelbase made it a bit more agile, the car was still a fair bit removed from a real sports car (in terms of size/weight), and the M-Sport suspensions are pretty road biased in both the 3 and 5.

It hardly matters anymore.

I agree the 3 series has gotten too big to be a sports car but I’ve driven a few 3’s and have owned two 5’s (B58 and N63) and I definitely feel they drive differently. 3 series more raw, 5 series more comfort, all things being equal.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

You know, people keep complaining about the size. But what car has not gotten bigger over the years. Even the Honda Accord is a giant compared to the one my Mom had in 1976. Don't even get me started on others. I had a 1993 325i. If you were to sit it next to a modern 330i it would be the same thing. The 7 series has grown as well. And the X5 is quite a bit larger than the original. People just don't notice it because they are looking at one generation to the next, and not looking at multiple generations.

I am sure there are some G30 owners out there, (Maybe not on this Forum) That complained that they wish their car was just a little bit larger with better rear legroom. But you won't see them here complaining because they are probably chomping at the bit to get a new G60.

Same with looks. I bet there are several people who bought or leased their G30 in early 2023, and did not know the G60 was coming out and are now pissed they didn't wait. So now they have last gen model that is only a year old, and has now depreciated even more because of it. I know I was looking at a 2022 G30 540i, but decided to wait until I was closer to the end of my tour. Now that I have, I am grateful I did. There is no worse feeling than buying a brand new car that suddenly becomes outdated over night. Those are at least some of the haters that are now saying how much they LOVE their 2023 G30 and HATE the new G60. Mainly because they can't justify trading in the car they are paying well over $1000.00 a month for without taking a serious loss on the depreciation. It's one [...]

Lovely generalizations here and wild judgements.

If you think about the fraction of people who bought or leased a g30 of MY23, and had no clue a new model was round the corner are clearly not into cars or BMWs, get their cars paid for by a business or corporation or they made a conscious choice. It’s a non zero number of people who had no clue but they are most likely not that many. Bmw usa will always try to sell you the outgoing model too with incentives, and they don’t advertise hey a new design is coming: there is a market for everything.

If you want an example:

I was ready to pull the trigger as well very well knowing what’s coming up ( I have MY20 G30 that was built to order). The MY23 was offered to me at a 9% discount before incentives for another custom order, knowing it was the last of the lot. I almost ordered it but my existing car had fairly low Covid miles, so I bought it instead given the high MF and terrible residuals.

If I was leasing, I would not have been bummed either way. You can get rid of the car in 3 years or when lci is around the corner in 4 years. I would have loved to keep a brand new G30 for much longer, but hindsight is 20/20.

Currently, I can easily go for another 540 lease now but I don’t like the G60, it’s lost the 5er DNA, I have driven one. And I had an F10 before this.

If you gave me an option of slightly modern tech on a G30 chassis with MY25 to custom order I will not blink an eye and get it instead of the bulbous boat like G60


So you may continue to bash people who are very small in number, who are not really trying to justify their MY22 and MY23 G30 purchase or lease, but actually like the car better. There may be a very few on the other FOMO camp, but you are very wrong in your assessment.

I would love to say the G60 to be owners justifying their own choices and ignoring the many shortcomings and drama of an incohesive design that BmW created. The new design language and the choices BmW is making are generating some lovely memes like never before and creating more entertainment and mocking that’s exceeded what the Bangle era cars got in comparison.

Go check out the BMW head designer’s Instagram account and see the comments people are making, he has been widely called to quit because all he does is generate some lovely sketches but screwed up real cars.

If you need his Instagram link, here is a post



Another one

[JD_BMW]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Yes, but no electric steering provides good feedback. Running tire pressure a bit lower will help; they are too high anyways (particularly for the US market).

That's usually because of improper implementation, like in the Q50 there's actually a mechanical actuator at the end of the mill, which activates when things go south to prevent a crash...

In theory you could make an electronical steering actually good. It's just that most adaptations are bad.

[ToddRGuy]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

Lovely generalizations here and wild judgements.

If you think about the fraction of people who bought or leased a g30 of MY23, and had no clue a new model was round the corner are clearly not into cars or BMWs, get their cars paid for by a business or corporation or they made a conscious choice. It’s a non zero number of people who had no clue but they are most likely not that many. Bmw usa will always try to sell you the outgoing model too with incentives, and they don’t advertise hey a new design is coming: there is a market for everything.

If you want an example:

I was ready to pull the trigger as well very well knowing what’s coming up ( I have MY20 G30 that was built to order). The MY23 was offered to me at a 9% discount before incentives for another custom order, knowing it was the last of the lot. I almost ordered it but my existing car had fairly low Covid miles, so I bought it instead given the high MF and terrible residuals.

If I was leasing, I would not have been bummed either way. You can get rid of the car in 3 years or when lci is around the corner in 4 years. I would have loved to keep a brand new G30 for much longer, but hindsight is 20/20.

Currently, I can easily go for another 540 lease now but I don’t like the G60, it’s lost the 5er DNA, I have driven one. And I had an F10 before this.

If you gave me an option of slightly modern tech on a G30 chassis with MY25 to custom order I will not blink an eye and get it instead of the bulbous boat like G60


So you may continue to bash people who are very small in number, who are not really trying to justify their MY22 and MY23 G30 purchase or lease, but actually like the car better. There may be a very few on the other FOMO camp, but you are very wrong in your assessment.

I would love to say the G60 to be owners justifying their own choices and ignoring the many shortcomings and drama of an incohesive design that BmW created. The new design language and the choices BmW is making are generating some lovely memes like never before and creating more entertainment and mocking that’s exceeded what the Bangle era cars got in comparison.

Go check out the BMW head designer’s Instagram account and see the comments people are making, he has been widely called to quit because all he does is generate some lovely sketches but screwed up real cars.

If you need his Instagram link, here is a post



Another one

So, since BMW is not going to change, nor is the 5 series, for at least another 5-6 years, what's your long-term plan? Leave the brand all together? Keep your G30?

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ToddRGuy

So, since BMW is not going to change, nor is the 5 series, for at least another 5-6 years, what's your long-term plan? Leave the brand all together? Keep your G30?

I’m not him but I think keeping a G30 or going to an 8 series are both good options. I will probably either keep my 2020 G30 or get an F90 M5 in the next year or so, that’s a little newer and drive it for 5 years.

If I had to leave the brand, I’d probably look at Audi because I like the S/RS 5 sportback. But I might end up sticking with the BMW brand in that case and get a M440 GC. S5 has a better interior, though. Feels nicer.

And of course someone could always get a 3 series. But I think it’s hard to go from 5 to 3. I tried to talk myself into that and couldn’t do it.

Also, I think BMW design right now is just trying to be as outside the box as possible. Kinda extreme. Usually that pendulum swings back.

I saw a new 7 series today. It’s an aggressive looking car. Made me wonder why they went so bland with the G60, in comparison.

[ToddRGuy]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I’m not him but I think keeping a G30 or going to an 8 series are both good options. I will probably either keep my 2020 G30 or get an F90 M5 in the next year or so, that’s a little newer and drive it for 5 years.

If I had to leave the brand, I’d probably look at Audi because I like the S/RS 5 sportback. But I might end up sticking with the BMW brand in that case and get a M440 GC. S5 has a better interior, though. Feels nicer.

And of course someone could always get a 3 series. But I think it’s hard to go from 5 to 3. I tried to talk myself into that and couldn’t do it.

Also, I think BMW design right now is just trying to be as outside the box as possible. Kinda extreme. Usually that pendulum swings back.

I saw a new 7 series today. It’s an aggressive looking car. Made me wonder why they went so bland with the G60, in comparison.

I’m driving the B9 A5 Sportback currently, while waiting for my 5’er to be built. I’ve had it for 6 years, and have had no problems with it; just scheduled yearly maintenance. The S5 or RS5 would be more invigorating to drive, to be certain. I can’t speak for the newest version that’s about to be released, of course, but B9 or B9.5 has been great. Perhaps not as comfortable as your G30 but it is buttoned down nicely.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ToddRGuy

I’m driving the B9 A5 Sportback currently, while waiting for my 5’er to be built. I’ve had it for 6 years, and have had no problems with it; just scheduled yearly maintenance. The S5 or RS5 would be more invigorating to drive, to be certain. I can’t speak for the newest version that’s about to be released, of course, but B9 or B9.5 has been great. Perhaps not as comfortable as your G30 but it is buttoned down nicely.

Yeah I thought it was a step above the 4 series, as far as interior appointment. And I think that’s the more appropriate comparison. I thought it rode smoother, had better seats, and sounded better. But the M340/M440 had the edge on how it drives for fun.

From what I saw, the next gen A5/S5 looked pretty good. Nothing extreme, as far as design change. It’s a shame they don’t offer a brown or tan interior. But Audi’s red interior is better than BMW’s, to me. More subtle, maybe a darker shade.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by ToddRGuy

So, since BMW is not going to change, nor is the 5 series, for at least another 5-6 years, what's your long-term plan? Leave the brand all together? Keep your G30?

If you are asking a genuine question, which I take you are, instead of a rhetorical one - I will buy a panny or if I cannot save up /afford one, the Audi A6.

There is little German DNA left in the 5er except the B58 combined with ZF transmission.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

If you are asking a genuine question, which I take you are, instead of a rhetorical one - I will buy a panny or if I cannot save up /afford one, the Audi A6.

There is little German DNA left in the 5er except the B58 combined with ZF transmission.

I always forget the Panamera. I’d like to drive one of those one day. I’ve got a friend that sells Audi and Porsche. He let me drive a RS6 they had on the used lot. If they get a Panamera, I could probably get a test drive. I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled.

The RS6 was awesome, by the way.

[Scrapula]

I honestly see way more online mocking of the M3, M4, and i7 because of the giant beaver teeth grilles. I find them hideous but love the front of the G60.

[rgw]

The market for an M5 is looking for a sleeper/Q car more so than the M2 through 4 market. The styling is more muted on the M5 accordingly. I bet they sell a lot of the M5 Touring in the United States because 1) I think the G60 wagon is the best looking wagon on the market right now 2) it is the ultimate sleeper because the body style doesn't suggest what is under the hood.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by kssod

From a performance stand point it is very good for a luxury biased sedan. BMW has gotten away from the sport sedan. .

This gets repeated a lot, but I don't agree.

The legendary E39 M5 was pretty soft, and the 540 of that period was a veritable pudding. The G30 has a much stiffer shell, and the suspension is quite sophisticated. The non-M-Sport models are softer, and all the setups are very road-biased, but the 5 has always been that way.

The real difference lies in the steering and the noise cancellation in modern cars, and non-M BMWs could always use a set of better dampers.

[rgw]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I always forget the Panamera. I’d like to drive one of those one day. I’ve got a friend that sells Audi and Porsche. He let me drive a RS6 they had on the used lot. If they get a Panamera, I could probably get a test drive. I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled.

The RS6 was awesome, by the way.

I’ve also gotten to test drive an RS6 Avant. It feels like it is on rails in s-curves. Sounds like a demon in an RS mode. Throttle response feels like if your foot slipped you’d be in the back of the car in front of you before you could react. The interior is beautiful and the exterior is timeless. Would love to contrast it with an M5 Touring one day.

[richpat69]

What am I missing here? 60 MPH is 4.0 seconds and 5-60 is 5 seconds?

I have a '24 540 and while it is not slouchy I wouldn't call it quick either. I'd be surprised if 0-60 is 4.0 seconds.