[carseatsm5]

Can the range stuff he says be right? That’s shockingly bad.

Charging speed, real-world battery capacity, power throttled at 60% battery, power drain on acceleration. I know this stuff usually doesn’t meet manufacturer claims but yeesh.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

Yikes! Other than the driving dynamics this guy absolutely hates the car. One wonders what he would think about the new E-Class as pretty much every one of his criticisms would seem to apply to that as well.

I can't ever recall a more negative review about any car. Wow!

Unfortunately, the new Mercedes-Benz E-class has a much nicer interior in terms of interior materials and as a well a more cohesive and attractive exterior design.

I’ve driven the new G60 i5 M60 and the only thing that stood out over the previous G30 was the powerful Acceleration.

It’s obvious BMW has cut corners in many areas as they admitted they cut costs on the new 5-series by at least 25%.

I agree with AutoTopNL’s review. The new 5 and i5 are just not doing it for me. BMW’s used to be on top of their game, and now they’re just phoning it in. Not good at all.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

Can the range stuff he says be right? That’s shockingly bad.

Charging speed, real-world battery capacity, power throttled at 60% battery, power drain on acceleration. I know this stuff usually doesn’t meet manufacturer claims but yeesh.

I can’t recall what range stuff was in the video - I’m getting an estimate of 260-270mi/charge, BMW claims 240-254miles depending upon wheels, BMW iX and i4 also exceeded manufacturer range claims….but the second part about power throttled at 60% is not correct at all.

[cpt]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

Can the range stuff he says be right? That’s shockingly bad.

Charging speed, real-world battery capacity, power throttled at 60% battery, power drain on acceleration. I know this stuff usually doesn’t meet manufacturer claims but yeesh.

I'm close to 2k miles in my i5 M60 (w/ 20" wheels). Averaged 3mi/kWh; 3.5mi/kWh if I drive conservatively. This translates to 250mi/294mi total range, both better than the 248mi advertised range.

Haven't noticed any "throttling" behavior. Tried to time the acceleration near full charge vs. at around 20% charge, they were the same.

"power drain on acceleration", I guess that's just how physics work?

[carseatsm5]

Originally Posted by cpt

I'm close to 2k miles in my i5 M60 (w/ 20" wheels). Averaged 3mi/kWh; 3.5mi/kWh if I drive conservatively. This translates to 250mi/294mi total range, both better than the 248mi advertised range.

Haven't noticed any "throttling" behavior. Tried to time the acceleration near full charge vs. at around 20% charge, they were the same.

"power drain on acceleration", I guess that's just how physics work?

Originally Posted by RichardInCA

I can’t recall what range stuff was in the video - I’m getting an estimate of 260-270mi/charge, BMW claims 240-254miles depending upon wheels, BMW iX and i4 also exceeded manufacturer range claims….but the second part about power throttled at 60% is not correct at all.

The 60% (or so I don’t remember specifically) happened to be the level the reviewer’s car was charged while he observed a lower max speed. Not suggesting that’s a magic number.

On the power drain on acceleration yeah I’m of course not surprised by its existence I was surprised by its extent. But he was gunning it on the Autobahn so probably was an extreme observation.

[RichardInCA]

There is a top speed limiter (I don’t recall the speed off the top of my head) but that’s regardless of state of charge and doesn’t throttle power back up to that point.

[2srsman]

Not to carry on but my old G30 had lighted door handles but admittedly not the welcome light carpet. I agree with the other posters on here that while G60 is technically more advanced, it has lost significant luxury touches which made the G30 special.

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

Unfortunately, the new Mercedes-Benz E-class has a much nicer interior in terms of interior materials and as a well a more cohesive and attractive exterior design.
as they admitted they cut costs on the new 5-series by at least 25%.

Interesting. Do you happen to have a link that you could share that indicates that "...they [BMW] cut costs on the new 5-series by at least 25%?"

As to your observations about the W214 I'd admit that it's a much more coherent design and one that blends in rather well with the brand's overall look. It's certainly not exciting, however. As to the interior, I'd also agree that the M-B did a better job making the interior "look" plush and upscale, but I've seen several reviews that indicate that the real quality of the interior materials of the W214 are not actually as upscale as they may look. But certainly, on first glance, the M-B does have a more plush looking interior. As to the aesthetics of the interior, however, as much as this is highly subjective, I find the M-B to be too garish and over-the-top. Their implementation of their ambient lights in particular looks like Times Square on New Years Eve. I think the way BMW implemented their interior lighting is significantly more elegant and tasteful. But, as I said, I'm aware that this is highly subjective and that some people may prefer the M-B implementation.

As we're ultimately talking about purchase decisions here I think it's also worth noting that M-B record of reliability lags significantly behind that of BMW. For those who lease I guess that's not a big deal, but for those who purchase and keep their cars for 5-7 years, that's an important criteria when determining purchase decisions. And then there's price. Though there's no official W214 buying configurator yet, I believe it's safe to say that when similarly equipped, the W214 is going to cost ~$10k-$15k more than the G60 for ICE models.

But I would like to know where BMW indicated they cut costs on the 5 series by 25%. That certainly seems odd and I haven't heard that anywhere else from any reviewer or auto journalist.

[cpt]

I have a hard time believing they're able to cut cost by 25% as well. My guess is the figure refers to manufacturing/logistics costs and the savings come from platform sharing between ICE and EV models.

[JMD]

He may hate BEVs,...but his kids and grandkids will luv 'em!

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

He drives like he is severely afflicted with ADHD, hates the fake noises (as do I), but doesn’t turn them off, and obviously is predisposed against EVs. He certainly presents a perspective but I found his review mostly subjective and not helpful.

I like that he is predisposed against EVs.



Autotop is a great channel, BTW. One of the best for BMWs. Worth noting is that their feelings about the G31/30 were far different, with Max saying it was one of the best cars BMW has ever made.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

Interesting. Do you happen to have a link that you could share that indicates that "...they [BMW] cut costs on the new 5-series by at least 25%?"

As to your observations about the W214 I'd admit that it's a much more coherent design and one that blends in rather well with the brand's overall look. It's certainly not exciting, however. As to the interior, I'd also agree that the M-B did a better job making the interior "look" plush and upscale, but I've seen several reviews that indicate that the real quality of the interior materials of the W214 are not actually as upscale as they may look. But certainly, on first glance, the M-B does have a more plush looking interior. As to the aesthetics of the interior, however, as much as this is highly subjective, I find the M-B to be too garish and over-the-top. Their implementation of their ambient lights in particular looks like Times Square on New Years Eve. I think the way BMW implemented their interior lighting is significantly more elegant and tasteful. But, as I said, I'm aware that this is highly subjective and that some people may prefer the M-B implementation.

As we're ultimately talking about purchase decisions here I think it's also worth noting that M-B record of reliability lags significantly behind that of BMW. For those who lease I guess that's not a big deal, but for those who purchase and keep their cars for 5-7 years, that's an important criteria when determining purchase decisions. And then there's price. Though there's no official W214 buying configurator yet, I believe it's safe to say that when [...]

https://bimmerlife.com/2021/06/26/bm...e-by-2025/amp/

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

https://bimmerlife.com/2021/06/26/bm...e-by-2025/amp/

Thank you.

The article was from three years ago but is interesting nonetheless. I think, however, they were talking about the manufacturing process and the sourcing of materials rather than cutting corners on the cars themselves. As most manufacturers are acutely aware of what their competitors are doing I wonder if similar goals of cost savings were put in place by other manufacturers.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

Thank you.

The article was from three years ago but is interesting nonetheless. I think, however, they were talking about the manufacturing process and the sourcing of materials rather than cutting corners on the cars themselves. As most manufacturers are acutely aware of what their competitors are doing I wonder if similar goals of cost savings were put in place by other manufacturers.

When you start to compare the new G60 vs the G30 I found way too many areas where you can tell they cut corners/costs. No comfirt access on the rear doors, Interior door panels on the lower section aren’t as padded/substantial, In the interior on the center console where the transmission area would be on the sides it now has hard touch plastics, Rear Seat full down armrest cupholders are now exposed, Front center console cupholders are now exposed and no longer have a cover tray, No more multi contour seats that articulate on the back rest upper portion, Standard seats no longer include power headrest, The Bower and Wilkens stereo is simply a rebadged Harmon Karmon stereo from the G30, The door sils are no longer illuminated or have that metallic plating, No more upper dash or upper door stitching, no more physical controls for the air-conditioning headlight switch, lock/unlock switch, The seat back on the front seats no longer have a pull out for magazine/storage, not as much ambient lighting on the rear doors. Steering wheel no longer has stitch covered leather around the BMW logo. Lower door pockets used to have some felt lining or the additional area where you could place a larger bottled water or drink. Etc.

I’m sure I could think of a few more, but as having been an owner of two G30’s and currently still have one, I am just not wowed by the new G60. It doesn’t feel nice or special enough for me to get excited about trading mine in for a newer one.

Having owned approx. 21 BMW’s since the 1990’s, owners like myself loyal to the brand notice these short comings and speak with our wallet. BMW has been making very bad decisions and sooner than later this is going to affect them and they have been losing the competitive edge they once had many years ago.

[Scrapula]

I’m sure part is weight savings on an EV. Things like leather, extra articulating parts, lining doors, adding rear seat pockets all add up. It’s not necessary for the non-EV but it costs more to build them on separate lines. Maybe with the next generation of EVs on a separate platform, they can add heavier materials back in to the non-EV vehicles.

But, this is what you are getting for the next 5 years. Honestly, it doesn’t bother me. My husband’s Lightning Platinum has leather/alcantara door panels on the top, hard plastic on the bottom. That was $98k and my i5 is $97k.

[carseatsm5]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

When you start to compare the new G60 vs the G30 I found way too many areas where you can tell they cut corners/costs. No comfirt access on the rear doors, Interior door panels on the lower section aren’t as padded/substantial, In the interior on the center console where the transmission area would be on the sides it now has hard touch plastics, Rear Seat full down armrest cupholders are now exposed, Front center console cupholders are now exposed and no longer have a cover tray, No more multi contour seats that articulate on the back rest upper portion, Standard seats no longer include power headrest, The Bower and Wilkens stereo is simply a rebadged Harmon Karmon stereo from the G30, The door sils are no longer illuminated or have that metallic plating, No more upper dash or upper door stitching, no more physical controls for the air-conditioning headlight switch, lock/unlock switch, The seat back on the front seats no longer have a pull out for magazine/storage, not as much ambient lighting on the rear doors. Steering wheel no longer has stitch covered leather around the BMW logo. Lower door pockets used to have some felt lining or the additional area where you could place a larger bottled water or drink. Etc.

I’m sure I could think of a few more, but as having been an owner of two G30’s and currently still have one, I am just not wowed by the new G60. It doesn’t feel nice or special enough for me to get excited about trading mine in for a newer one.

Having owned approx. 21 BMW’s since the 1990’s, owners like myself loyal to the brand notice these short comings [...]

They cut comfort access on a $100K car? Huh?

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

They cut comfort access on a $100K car? Huh?

No - mine has comfort access. It defaults to just opening the drivers door but can be programmed to open all 4 via iDrive.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

You know I really, really don't understand why someone is complaining so bitterly about a car they're buying when there are so many other excellent options available.

It's really hard to comprehend. And, BTW, I've opened and closed the doors in several G60's and they're not "tinny" at all.

Out of all communities, BMW owners tend to be the most critical of their cars, and honestly, I like it and think it's healthy for the most part, better than the opposite. It's good to have a realistic perspective, and with any hope, properly placed criticism can influence the manufacturer.

The G60 is objectively a step down in areas that matter to me personally, and its souring me on it. Those areas might not matter to you, TBH BMW has probably done the math and figured that they don't matter enough to enough prospective buyers, but I'm glad they're being surfaced nevertheless. I'm a very nitpicky gadget junky and thought I was alone in these perspectives.

It's largely take rate, and partially that the 5er has slowly been turning into a red-headed stepchild, with the more premium options being saved for the SUV's and the 7 series. It's being positioned a little downmarket compared to the G30 and earlier 5ers. The pricing being slightly lower is case in point.

Is it going to be enough to get me to switch to Audi or MB, probably not, as they have their own shortcomings, but it's definitely going to make me more reluctant to upgrade altogether. I'm hoping that either the LCI or the M5 at least bring back the option of multicontour seats, soft-close doors and B&W Diamond.

[Scrapula]

I guess it’s hard to justify the price of the i7 if you put all of its features into the i5. Just eliminating the things I would never use like reclining rear seats and a television for the rear passengers, I still built it out at $135k. That’s $40k more than my i5. Put those seats, stereo, dash, door panels, self closing doors in an i5 and no one buys the 7. I understand why they did it. I thought about it, but I didn’t find those features worth $40k.

[G35c6MT]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

I guess it’s hard to justify the price of the i7 if you put all of its features into the i5. Just eliminating the things I would never use like reclining rear seats and a television for the rear passengers, I still built it out at $135k. That’s $40k more than my i5. Put those seats, stereo, dash, door panels, self closing doors in an i5 and no one buys the 7. I understand why they did it. I thought about it, but I didn’t find those features worth $40k.

To your point, the G30 upper trim levels were more like a short wheelbase 7er like the 740i back in the day. G60 is pretty close but missing those few features that I’d like back from the 7er minus the long wheelbase bc I have no use for the extra rear legroom.

[alewifebp]

We all know a few things that are true. Even in Europe, the popularity of the SUV/CUV/SAV has increased, while sedans have waned. On EV platforms, the SUV will have a lot less reasons for Europe to not buy them due to efficiency. I had driven in the Netherlands this summer a Lynk & Co Chinese car. It was a PHEV. The thing is, it was not refined, it looked good inside but was cheap as can be, and things creaked when pushing panels. Engine/drivetrain was rough. But you know what, it was starting to get in to the "good enough" territory. It was relatively luxurious, and I'm sure it was cheaper than German and other European competitors. This is the reality that is going to happen, so no doubt everyone is preparing for that. Add in inflation and the car having finished up development during the pandemic with short supplies.

Then they need to reduce weight since these EVs are porkers, and also want to use recycled materials... Tesla gets away with it, so in terms of build and material quality, it's still superior. BMW wasn't well known for having awesome and luxurious material quality in the past either. It was often a criticism of the brand. Bangle era was particularly bad, IMO.

It's not that I like it, but it's the reality. The true test will be the Neue Klasse and seeing what the next X5 will be like.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

Unfortunately, the new Mercedes-Benz E-class has a much nicer interior in terms of interior materials and as a well a more cohesive and attractive exterior design.

I’ve driven the new G60 i5 M60 and the only thing that stood out over the previous G30 was the powerful Acceleration.

It’s obvious BMW has cut corners in many areas as they admitted they cut costs on the new 5-series by at least 25%.

I agree with AutoTopNL’s review. The new 5 and i5 are just not doing it for me. BMW’s used to be on top of their game, and now they’re just phoning it in. Not good at all.

Accelleration that you can use for about 50kms, otherwise your overall range shrinks to practically nothing.

EVs are a massive fraud that were prematurely brought to market in order to deny the middle and lower classes a right to private transportation post-2030.

The technocrats are doing their best to destroy the auto industry, particularly here in Germany.