[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by BTM

No no, he's right! I found his graph!

[BTM]

Other than the fact that post count means more than intellectual ability to you, what can you prove in defense of your position?

I mean I expect stupidity when posting in OT forums, but overall this is eye-opening

[BTM]

So...nothing? PM if your scared

Damn ninja delete...no wonder it didn't quote...

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by BTM

Other than the fact that post count means more than intellectual ability to you, what can you prove in defense of your position?

I mean I expect stupidity when posting in OT forums, but overall this is eye-opening

shut up.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by ghosthi32

shut up.

Wow, convincing. You win

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by BTM

So...nothing? PM if your scared

YEAH IM SOOO SCARED OMGG

STFU.

[BTM]

Contribute Something Other Than "stupid Noob You Must Be Retarded"

[Belarus]

Unreal... a well intended post to make few people laugh turns into a sparring match of wisdom's... which turns into a joke of it's own...LMFAO...

BTM, you need to take that obtuse cucumber out of your @ss, your accute brain can't handle the sensation...

[BTM]

I realize it was an attempt at humor, and even chuckled sarcastically a few times myself. The exception I take is to those saying "Yea! Shit was way better back in 197x or 198x or 195x or whatever!" These are the people I'm responding to. If you realize it's a marginally amusing yet stupid joke, then good for you, that's what it is. If you're one of the one's who takes the "sad this is where society is heading" POV then you're the one I'm trying to reach here.

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by BTM

I realize it was an attempt at humor, and even chuckled sarcastically a few times myself. The exception I take is to those saying "Yea! Shit was way better back in 197x or 198x or 195x or whatever!" These are the people I'm responding to. If you realize it's a marginally amusing yet stupid joke, then good for you, that's what it is. If you're one of the one's who takes the "sad this is where society is heading" POV then you're the one I'm trying to reach here.

[BTM]

HAHA yea I looked for that image to post it myself after I said I thought it was stupid and people said to get the cucumber out of my ass/sand out of my vagina, now I have the url bookmarked for when I need it

[radix]

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.p.../article/3465/

An NOP survey commissioned by The Children’s Society found that 43 per cent of adults thought children should not go out unsupervised until they were 14 years old. Other research has found that in 1970 the average nine-year-old was free to roam 840 metres from his or her front door. By 1997, that had shrunk to 280 metres.

Bob Reitemeier, chief executive of The Children’s Society, warned: ‘If we go too far down the road of being overprotective and not allowing children to explore, to play, to be up with their peers, but also with children of other ages, then we may be influencing the way in which they look at society and social interaction later on.’ (1)

Dr Helene Guldberg is managing editor at spiked. She has a PhD in developmental psychology and is an associate lecturer in child development at the Open University.

http://www.boblivingstone.com/conten...an-do-about-it

Despite the facts, regardless of the literature, notwithstanding the statistics, reason retreats in the face of fear. Parents plead that kids need special protection, and more of it, because the crime rate has continued to rise over the years. Adults commonly claim that the danger of a child or anyone else being physically assaulted is much more likely today than it was when they themselves were kids. But does the crime rate in the past decade support the claim?

Actually, according to a recent FBI report, major crime in the U.S. has since 1965 been overall on the decline. Associated Press writer Michael J. Sniffen reports in an October 17, 2005, article:

The nation’s murder rate declined last year for the first time in four years, dropping to the lowest level in 40 years. Experts said local rather than national trends were mostly responsible.
The rates for all seven major crimes were down and the overall violent crime rate reached a 30-year low, according to the FBI’s annual compilation of crimes reported to the police.

There were 391 fewer murders nationwide in 2004 than the year before. The total of 16,137 worked out to 5.5 murders for every 100,000 people.
That’s a decline of 3.3 percent from 2003 and the lowest murder rate since 1965, when it was 5.1.

The four major violent crimes — murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assaults — declined from 1.38 million in 2003 to 1.37 million in 2004. That produced a 2.2 percent drop in the violent crime rate to 465.5 crimes per 100,000 people — the lowest since 1974, when it was 461.1.

Yet crimes against children remain a major news staple. The sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests may to a degree have warranted the media rage it prompted in recent years, but it did not indicate a general trend. “After uncovering a criminal conspiracy in the highest levels of the U.S. Catholic church involving the sexual abuse of children,” reads a 2002 report from the media-watchdog agency Accuracy in Media, “the media are now reassuring the American people that abductions and murders of children by child predators are rare.” Rare they may be, but it is the abductions and murders themselves—not the reassurances that they are rare— that make headline news.

“The abductions and searches have become a staple of cable television news, which may give the public the impression that there has been a sudden rash of abductions and murders of children,” writes William Booth in the Washington Post. “But according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, there appears to be no significant increase in the number of child abductions.”

Bob holds a Masters Degree in Social Welfare that he earned at the University of Kansas in 1979. His California License number is LCS 11087.

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchi...&sectionid=268

Catastrophic news events, in particular, have raised concerns among many parents in recent years. Round-the-clock coverage of child abductions, war, terrorism, and even hurricanes has made it difficult to shield young children from graphic news stories. Indeed, the content of television news has become more violent and graphic over time.37

Heavy viewers of the news were also personally more worried about being abducted than light viewers were, even after researchers controlled for the child's age and gender as well as for parental news viewing and parental fear of abduction.

Barbara J. Wilson
Paul C. Friedland Professorial Scholar and Head of the Department of Communication, The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

All of the above means - at least to me - that more exposure to news media (stories of child abduction, rape, and abuse in particular) results in increased parental fear of child abduction. Note that the last author also mentions the "paucity of studies in this area", which I would add, makes it difficult for me to come up with the graphs that you so desperately wanted BTM.

We get more stories of child abduction and so forth today than in the 50's I'd suspect, if nothing else due to the increased number of media sources. Overall, with the dawn of the Internet and number of cable news channels, I'd bet that proliferation of these stories has risen, resulting in increased consumption. By its very nature, that increased consumption results in increased media influence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_influence

which I believe has an effect on parenting as indicated by the sources above. So yes, I do believe that overparenting is largely due to an increase in the number of parents succumbing to knee jerk reactions provoked by the media, and I believe increased exposure to media due to increased depth, breadth, and velocity of news plays a role in that irrational behavior.

Without trying to erect a strawman, if you choose to believe that increased media coverage and proliferation of abductions, pedophilia, etc., doesn't result in increased overprotective parenting, then so be it. I tend to believe otherwise.

[radix]

Originally Posted by BTM

Other than the fact that post count means more than intellectual ability to you, what can you prove in defense of your position?

I mean I expect stupidity when posting in OT forums, but overall this is eye-opening

It's not the best idea to bring intellectual ability into the discussion, particularly because you don't know me that well. Given that fact, a remark such as yours could be interpreted as hubris, or if I were so inclined to interpret it that way, perhaps even argumentum ad hominem, which as I'm sure you know, seldom wins an argument. I'm not going to infer anything however, as I'm sure you were implying nothing.

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by radix

As someone born to perhaps the last generation of kids who were allowed to go out and play in their neighborhood all day, I find this funny. Those born in the 80's and 90's probably won't.

I find it funny in the sense that it's so true. Although, I find it mostly saddening (90's baby here)....America has gone down the shitter.

From how I understand it, that time period (1950's-60's) was FTW. Men were men, women were women, and knew their place, kids weren't little phaggoty disrespectful shits that they are today, people respected each other, and the country wasn't as pussified as it is today. If something needed to be settled between men it was settled, without fear of lawsuits or nonsense from police. If a pedo messed with your child you take care of it how you see fit, the way it should be, an eye for an eye.

Wish I would have been born sooner. On the other hand though, the future of technology is awesome.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by radix

It's not the best idea to bring intellectual ability into the discussion, particularly because you don't know me that well. Given that fact, a remark such as yours could be interpreted as hubris, or if I were so inclined to interpret it that way, perhaps even argumentum ad hominem, which as I'm sure you know, seldom wins an argument. I'm not going to infer anything however, as I'm sure you were implying nothing.

All I was doing there was responding to the "another arrogant newb" comment. As if anything relevant to my intellectual ability can be extracted from the number of posts I've made on this forum

[BTM]

I agree with you that the media has a much more significant reach than it has in past years. However, it is up to the individual as to how they interpret the news...if these "scare" stories were not so profitable for the media there would not be so many of them. To me it is education that is lacking, not the media, not the fact that you can't bring a gun to school, not kids being diagnosed with LD (as the original post implies). People will eat up what the media tells them to, I'm in complete agreement here, and will be afraid of kidnappings etc. without looking at facts, ie how many kids have been kidnapped in their area, etc. If people did their homework they might find that their child has a better probability of being hurt in a car accident while driving them to school than of being kidnapped. But people let emotion make decisions for them. By now we're completely off topic from what I was criticizing in the original post.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

I find it funny in the sense that it's so true. Although, I find it mostly saddening (90's baby here)....America has gone down the shitter.

I reiterate here, please explain to me without generalizing or using opinions how America has "gone down the shitter." I am willing to listen, I have not been shown any hard numbers indicating that American quality of life has worsened since 1957.

From how I understand it, that time period (1950's-60's) was FTW. Men were men, women were women, and knew their place, kids weren't little phaggoty disrespectful shits that they are today, people respected each other, and the country wasn't as pussified as it is today. If something needed to be settled between men it was settled, without fear of lawsuits or nonsense from police. If a pedo messed with your child you take care of it how you see fit, the way it should be, an eye for an eye.

How you understand it is based on media glorifications of the era. Men were men, women were women? What does this even mean? Are you making a comment on each genders' respective role in society? Please. If you really want a women who will stay at home and raise your kids and keep your house and cook your food there are plenty more than happy to do so, I see no problem with being a housewife if that's what you want. Are you implying that giving more choice to more of the population regarding what they want to do with their life is a bad thing?

I'd like to see these "pussified" statistics too...sure life is more fruitful than it was but I'd like to know how this is a bad thing? Isn't that the point of progress?

[Verbiage]

[Maestro]

You have to ask yourself (I do care what age you are) what happen to change this all.

Not to go back to the gun and school thing, but it is a good example. Why have schools felt a need to have zero tolerance for violence. I can guess at a number of reasons and probably come pretty close to the reasons but I would have to say the main reason it is because a few people who got their asses kicked as kids and now they have some authority today and keep telling our kids it not good to fight or disagree and the list goes on.

So why did society go from a point where kids never thought about blowing up the school and shooting everyone in school to the point where it keeps happening and now it is spilling over in to Colleges

All this zero tolerance has done is suppressed people so much that instead of having a fight and getting it out of their systems when it happens they hold it in to the point that have to take everyone out since they have no clue at this point who to blame so they blame everyone.

You know Colleges did not have on campus violence issue until schools began this whole zero tolerance crap. Today you have a whole group of people coming of out of high schools not knowing how to deal with conflict and people who just do not like you and want to kick your ass.

I personally got in fights in school, never got detention or expelled, only once end up in the principles office and that was because the kid's parents complained I beat their kid's ass. To this day the best part of this is what my dad said to the principle and the kid's parents (there is no doubt who started it, the kid did and he said so) and I quote "I told my son, you never start a fight, but you finish it, and from the looks of it my son did exactly that." Then is parents said but your son hurt our son, and my dad said "Then your son should learn not to put his hands on another person because sometimes he will get hurt and maybe he learned a lesson which you failed to teach him"

At that point my dad said we are done discussing this and we left.

If this happen today both the kid and myself would have been arrested just because of a playground disagreement. This just happen in my son's school, a kid has been picked on for years and the kid finally let lose and laid into the next kid who game him a hard time. Well they both have police records and have to go to court for aggravated assault.

Back to my gun comment, even though I got in fights in school, probably a hand full, I never once thought about bring my guns into school. There were some people I really hated too. The typical bully crowd who took every opportunity to bust your stones and make you look like an idiot in front of people. I solved that problem one day, I punched out the biggest one in the group when I learn he could not fight, he had size and weight on everyone. I was taking Boxing and Karate at the time so It did not take long to lay him out in the school hallway. Needless to say, I never had a problem with that group after that.

I can tell you this, no matter whether the fight was win loose of draw, I learned it was not worth it, since you get hurt no matter what, and then you have to explain your actions to everyone.

[BTM]

You really think the reason schools have a zero tolerance violence policy is because administrators got their asses kicked as kids? And not because parents don't want their kids getting in fights at learning institutions? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard

Violence has always existed, it only "became a problem" after zero tolerance policies were put in place because now there was no tolerance for something that previously dealt with otherwise

Were both kids charged? Or did your son just finally snap and beat someone up? If that's the case he should be charged with aggravated assault. You mentioned people don't know how to deal with conflict, is this your idea of properly dealing with a personal conflict?

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by BTM

Again I have not made any political accusations in this thread. I'm a libertarian if that means anything.

I'm 22. Yes I'm young. Age doesn't mean you're smarter, it just means you've been around longer and experienced more, it doesn't mean you've made the correct inferences based on these experiences and no one expects it should. Welcome to why statistics were created.

I've studied economic development to a great extent, and can assure you the 3 largest metrics indicating a better quality of life are per capita income increasing, life expectancy increasing, and infant mortality rate decreasing. In fact the latter two are nearly completely dependent on the first. I'm not saying that the only three things anyone should ever care about is per capita income, life expectancy, and infant mortality rate, but I guarantee the average person would like MORE money, a LONGER life, and for their baby (existing or pending) to have a BETTER probability of living...I'd say those 3 are pretty important factors.

You're 22. I don't think you're old enough to really understand what it was like "back in the day" vs the shit that it has become now. If you did, maybe you would be able to use gauges outside of selective economic stats to measure "what life in general" was like then vs now.

Originally Posted by radix

As someone born to perhaps the last generation of kids who were allowed to go out and play in their neighborhood all day, I find this funny. Those born in the 80's and 90's probably won't.

Yup me too. I can't believe what sort of shit this country has resorted to in such a short period of time, how obvious it is that our kids are getting the shaft, and how hard liberals will fight to keep it that way despite all the indicators that we are killing our own kids.

Originally Posted by Belarus

you need to take that obtuse cucumber out of your @ss, your accute brain can't handle the sensation...

Effin A Cotton.

Originally Posted by radix

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.p.../article/3465/





http://www.boblivingstone.com/conten...an-do-about-it






http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchi...&sectionid=268









All of the above means - at least to me - that more exposure to news media (stories of child abduction, rape, and abuse in particular) results in increased parental fear of child abduction. Note that the last author also mentions the "paucity of studies in this area", which I would add, makes it difficult for me to come up with the graphs that you so desperately wanted BTM.

We get more stories of child abduction and so forth today than in the 50's I'd suspect, if nothing else due to the increased number of media sources. Overall, with the dawn of the Internet and number of cable news channels, I'd bet that proliferation of these stories has risen, resulting in increased consumption. By its very nature, that increased consumption results in increased media influence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_influence

which I believe has an effect on parenting as indicated by the sources above. So yes, I do believe that overparenting is largely due to an increase in the number of parents succumbing to knee jerk reactions provoked by the media, and I believe increased exposure to media due to increased depth, breadth, and velocity of news plays a role in that irrational behavior.

Without trying to erect a strawman, if you choose to believe that increased media coverage and proliferation of abductions, pedophilia, etc., doesn't result in increased overprotective parenting, then so be it. I tend to believe otherwise.

That about sums it up. Or maybe he'll refute your argument with his selective economic stats? Minus the stats that indicate our future generations are doomed to be more broke and less apt to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

I find it funny in the sense that it's so true. Although, I find it mostly saddening (90's baby here)....America has gone down the shitter.

From how I understand it, that time period (1950's-60's) was FTW. Men were men, women were women, and knew their place, kids weren't little phaggoty disrespectful shits that they are today, people respected each other, and the country wasn't as pussified as it is today. If something needed to be settled between men it was settled, without fear of lawsuits or nonsense from police. If a pedo messed with your child you take care of it how you see fit, the way it should be, an eye for an eye.

Wish I would have been born sooner. On the other hand though, the future of technology is awesome.

Yes in many ways the world (especially this country) was a better place. In a few ways, it wasn't.

If we can't see that we're screwing our own future generations over with the BS that we're supporting these days, then our country is fucked. Period.

That being said, I laughed at the original post. It IS funny unless you just don't know any better.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by BTM

More so than the ignorance and "back in my day" propagandists who spew these over-exaggerated fabrications shit as "evidence" that everything was better before? Every statistical metric of progress (life expectancy, per capita income, infant mortality rate) indicates vast improvements in American life over the last 50 years. But yea, I'd rather bring my gun to school.

Well, America is fatter now than ever before, and we have now resulted to arguing on the internet. So, there are two pieces of evidence that suggest we may be headed in the wrong direction. Just trying to inject some lightheartedness into this suddenly serious thread.