[elitex]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

You're misremembering the test. The E39 M5 was the fastest production sedan available when it came out. Here's a link to the Car and Driver test you're thinking about: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15140702/2000-bmw-m5-vs-2000-mercedes-benz-e55-amg-2000-jaguar-xjr-comparison-test/

The M5 was significantly faster than its competition. I bought one and had it for 15 years. Great car; incredible when it was announced. Still incredible today.

Here's a quote from the article:
"How do you characterize a roomy four-door, leather-lined luxury capsule that can keep up with a C5 Corvette? All the way to 150 mph! With quarter-mile performance of 13.3 seconds at 108 mph, let's just call it the fastest production sedan on the planet.

But the new M5 is more than a tire shredding drag racer (the traction control occasionally cuts in during a hard three-four shift over bumpy pavement—at 110 mph!). It stopped from 70 mph in the shortest span (156 feet), it performed emergency-lane-change maneuver successfully at the highest speed (66.2 mph), and it tied for the best cornering grip at 0.90 g. The M5 is simply a remarkably well-rounded performance machine."

Found it. I was off on the years a bit. It was 2003 not 2001.


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

[elitex]

Originally Posted by jstein55

God I miss those days...

I could only dream of owning an M car in those days. Just out of high school and enjoying life.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We are the last saving grace for the MT over here in the U.S. Hopefully people continue to buy them. I think the MT offering is what still sets BMW apart from the competition.

..Realy hoping the initial release of the M3 will be 6MT and not a delayed later edition, please release at the onset... ha ... hoping...

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by dakine_surf

I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...

If I have the luxary of getting my first "true M" M4, I look forward to ordering it debadged.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Frosty

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]..Realy hoping the initial release of the M3 will be 6MT and not a delayed later edition, please release at the onset... ha ... hoping...[/COLOR]

We've already seen spy shots of nearly production ready 6MT G80's. I think we can be fairly certain the 6MT will be available at launch.

[Frosty]

Nice to see him mention the 500 MLE

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by duky

....this was quick: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/04/...sion-canceled/

Read: 2021 Testla Roadster

[themnmd]

I want his job 😁

[pbar]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

If you want more control, buy a 6MT!!!

Sincerely,

The [6MT] Police

Perfect timing!

TBH, I find I have more control (and engagement) with the M-DCT than a 6MT, but each to their own.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's not just the transmission. It's power/torque under the curve and engine characteristics. The transmission isn't nearly as big a factor as how the motor builds power.

I have a strong suspicion, based on the X3M, that the next generation of M3 will have a power curve that is designed to work with an auto box that shifts really frequently to keep the boost up and the revs in a small range.

Let's hope they haven't compromised your 6MT experience. (you're certainly going to need a faster wrist action! )

[Scrippy]

206% increase in M sales......is that because every series brands "other M models" maybe? X1 M235ix FTW Give me a break! Were more M3, M4, M5 & M6 models sold, because now there's an M2 & M8 and the plenty other abominations that have m logos everywhere. So in other words no shit more M models were sold. I don't take this as the brand appealing to more/new buyers as much as an M flood that dilutes the nomenclature.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by pbar

Perfect timing!

TBH, I find I have more control (and engagement) with the M-DCT than a 6MT, but each to their own.

I have a strong suspicion, based on the X3M, that the next generation of M3 will have a power curve that is designed to work with an auto box that shifts really frequently to keep the boost up and the revs in a small range.

Let's hope they haven't compromised your 6MT experience. (you're certainly going to need a faster wrist action! )

I don't know how you could objectively have more control with transmission that can shift for you versus one that won't.

It won't impact my manual experience. The new car won't be any worse than the F8X, and I love my F8X.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't know how you could objectively have more control with transmission that can shift for you versus one that won't.

It won't impact my manual experience. The new car won't be any worse than the F8X, and I love my F8X.

Don't count on it not bring worse.

The grill is Terrible and the auto will shift when it thinks it should rather then when you want it to.

The new M3 will be no different to an Audi RS5 - except the interior will be much lower quality.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Don't count on it not bring worse.

The grill is Terrible and the auto will shift when it thinks it should rather then when you want it to.

The new M3 will be no different to an Audi RS5 - except the interior will be much lower quality.

I don't hate the grille and I'll be buying a manual. I would never own an auto or DCT enthusiast-mobile. In twenty years of driving BMW's and BMW M's, I have never once disliked the newer car, so BMW has the benefit of the doubt coming from me.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't hate the grille and I'll be buying a manual. I would never own an auto or DCT enthusiast-mobile. In twenty years of driving BMW's and BMW M's, I have never once disliked the newer car, so BMW has the benefit of the doubt coming from me.

Yeah if was to buy one, it would be a manual.

This will be my last though.

[Bemo]

Instead of slapping 35 different ///M badges on most of the fleet, why not develop a large displacement naturally aspirated motor and get back to the beginning principles of the ///M division?

Else it's off to the Porsche GT division!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Bemo

Instead of slapping 35 different ///M badges on most of the fleet, why not develop a large displacement naturally aspirated motor and get back to the beginning principles of the ///M division?

Else it's off to the Porsche GT division!

Looks like it's off to Porsche's GT division then because what you want is a thing of the past. Rennlist is waiting for you.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Bemo

Instead of slapping 35 different ///M badges on most of the fleet, why not develop a large displacement naturally aspirated motor and get back to the beginning principles of the ///M division?

Else it's off to the Porsche GT division!

Because it makes no business sense with the market BMW is targeting...

Now take a look at Lotus to go back to the essence of the previous Ms. But you also have to accept the higher cost and reliability/quality issues that comes with it.

And I think most people would gladly jump to Porsche if it can deliver at a reasonable (read: BMW) price range. If you have the funds and are willing to pay the Porsche tax, than I would encourage you to run and not walk to the Porsche GT department. Taking relative cost aside, they do offer better driving experience than BMW.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Looks like it's off to Porsche's GT division then because what you want is a thing of the past. Rennlist is waiting for you.

Already half way there but still enjoying the LRPE and hoping that Munich gets its act together.
Farty turbos are fun but the old ///M guard knows better!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Because it makes no business sense with the market BMW is targeting...

Now take a look at Lotus to go back to the essence of the previous Ms. But you also have to accept the higher cost and reliability/quality issues that comes with it.

And I think most people would gladly jump to Porsche if it can deliver at a reasonable (read: BMW) price range. If you have the funds and are willing to pay the Porsche tax, than I would encourage you to run and not walk to the Porsche GT department. Taking relative cost aside, they do offer better driving experience than BMW.

People that can go P-Car usually do so without announcing what they would do. They tend to be more action rather than verbiage.......verbiage about changes they hope BMW will make to keep them as a customer, but won't happen. Posturing at its finest.

[nis270r]

Originally Posted by dakine_surf

I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...

I agree 100%, someone from the BMW North America or BMW CCA needs to write and tell them to stop watering down the M logo and identity, you dont need to stick an M badge on every other damn car to make a sale. X3/4/6 M are such nonsense, one M SUV is plenty enough in the lineup. M340i/550i/850i.... we can go on and on

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by nis270r

I agree 100%, someone from the BMW North America or BMW CCA needs to write and tell them to stop watering down the M logo and identity, you dont need to stick an M badge on every other damn car to make a sale. X3/4/6 M are such nonsense, one M SUV is plenty enough in the lineup. M340i/550i/850i.... we can go on and on

Most diehards would agree, but BMW markets to more than diehards. I, too, miss the simple days: M3/M5/M6. That's it!

[vasi_M3]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

+1

People don't realize how hard it is to decrease weight in a modern car, while keeping the cost reasonable for its target demographic. Sure, the M2 could be made out of carbon fiber, but the cost and maintenance will be astronomical.

Not to mention all the new safety features, which not only includes the electronics, but also the various structural components that absorb the force and crumples in the predicted manner.

If you want lightness, look at the great ND Miata. But also know it compromises on pure power, not to mention how skinny the tires are. One key reason Mazda designers did not want to increase power is due to weight. In fact, the Japanese Mazda designers actually wanted the 1.5L to be standard, instead of adding a 2.0L. And lastly, look at the interior quality of the Miata. To get the weight down, the materials cannot be compared in terms of luxury feel of a BMW (read: not saying Miata quantity is poor).

I'm being optimist and hope even if BMW could get the next gen to 3400 - 3500 lbs, that would be a miracle.

If Porsche and Lotus can make 3000-3100 lbs cars with the build quality and all the safety tech required today I don’t see why BMW can’t do it. What happened to their carbon plastic products used in the i3 which starts at under 3000 lbs.

I realize it’s not as easy today to make the cars lighter but it’s not impossible. When you charge $140k for an M4 GTS and all you do is trim a few pounds and slap a roll cage and big wing you get an undesirable product. You either stay true to an ethos or you don’t and I think BMW is walking away from it. On a side note I did drive the new M340 and it felt more fun to drive than the M5 and M2 comp, an everyday car that felt very agile.