[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Well, it's a different situation when two vehicles are merging into the same lane. I tend to acquiesce and be that "nice guy", because I generally am that "nice guy" despite what I said previously. (Another "nice guy" situation: at a 4-way stop, I'll let someone who's obviously in a hurry go before me, even if I stopped sooner.)

Hey now ... money doesn't solve every situation, particularly when your average driver has no clue which car costs what amount of money. (Example: I guarantee most people think pickup trucks top out at $40k. That's the average price of one 'round these parts!) General driving habits are cultural more than anything else. One sojourn in Italy, then Osaka, then Quito, then Tangier (all places in which I've rented a car; I've been a passenger many other places, from Dehli to Stockholm) will tell you that.

Yeah I was joking about the more expensive car thing. Both into same lane I generally wait bc no one really knows who has right if way and I'd rather let the other guy go that chance getting into a mess.

That's just a weird one for both parties not necessarily clear cut or someone driving like an asshole.

[VRG_135]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Yeah, and folks are driving 20. It's snow, there's no ice. I was doing 75 until I can up on a gaggle of fools on the 35 Express doing 20, side by side. Absolutely no reason for that.

Your other post reminds me of the US coverage of the Canadian GP when they congratulated Lewis Hamilton for being the first African American to win an F1 race. I'm sure he was surprised to know he was American.

Lots of ice in Tarrant County. Saw several cars that had spun, including a five series.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

I couldn't care less about how they react to me, they are the ones holding up traffic by not letting anyone get by.

You'll care when they shoot you in the head. You, along with a few others that have said they will take actions to piss off the other driver that has "wronged" you by traveling in "your" lane. The whole "I'm gunna show him!" attitude. You are absolutely asking for it. Why? How is it worth it?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by VRG_135

Lots of ice in Tarrant County. Saw several cars that had spun, including a five series.

I was there a few years ago when there was about 3-6" of freezing rain at once. It took me 2hrs to chip away and get into my car and then driving to the airport was like a scene from an apocalypse movie, there were no cars out anywhere, in the daytime, but there were parts of cars strewn everywhere, a bumper here, wheel there, etc.

[48Laws]

Most people get flats in right lane. That's where all the bs debris ends up. Don't ride that lane too long.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

You'll care when they shoot you in the head. You, along with a few others that have said they will take actions to piss off the other driver that has "wronged" you by traveling in "your" lane. The whole "I'm gunna show him!" attitude. You are absolutely asking for it. Why? How is it worth it?

Just for context: You have a much higher chance of 'that' slow driver causing an accident that will injure or kill you than 'that' slow driver pulling out a gun and shooting you with it.

I'm not saying road rage is a myth -- I can recall several situations on a sportbike where a driver put me in harm's way for no other reason than becuase he/she was pissed at what I could do on two wheels that he/she couldn't do on four. But its rate of occurrence is far, far overblown.

[SportySpice]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'm also in Dallas. I rode sportbikes in this city for nearly a decade (yes, partially to commute to work) and lived in Europe for several years, so believe me when I say I have broken the driving culture here down to a science -- if I hadn't, I'd probably be dead.

(I'm about to say some things that some may consider borderline racist, but they're not -- they're cultural. Big difference.)

The left-lane hogs here are numerous, but can be broken down into several categories:
- Those who do it on purpose to assert some form of superiority
- Those who are clueless to their surroundings, and who consider the road theirs and no one else's
- Those who (as mentioned previously) think the left lane is the fastest lane, even if it's going slower consistently
- Those who consider the left lane inherently safer because large traffic (trucks, 18-wheelers) doesn't use it -- or can't by law, as on I-30 westbound from just outside of Dallas through Fort Worth
- Those who come from cultures where the left lane is actually the slowest (this is my theory with some Asian drivers) or where there is even less lane discipline than in the U.S. (i.e., much of Latin America)

When riding a motorcycle in city traffic, you learn quickly how to 'profile' drivers by the types of vehicles they're driving -- and you learn just as quickly that there is a cultural pattern present no matter what's being driven. Among the left-lane hogs are:
- Some people of African descent. I can't say African Americans because I frankly don't know for certain. But there is a distinct cultural component here that has to do with asserting superiority and 'being noticed'.
- Certain Asians. Especially west Asians: Japanese, Koreans, some Chinese, Vietnamese. This is a cultural aversion to taking bodily risks in these cultures, so first- and second-generation Asians tend to drive slow and very purposefully.
- Some Latin Americans. Some won't speed no matter what the traffic around them is doing. Why? Probably because they're minimizing their chance of being pulled over. Why? They're likely illegal, or have something illegal in the vehicle.)

I've spoken to cops about all of this -- including motorcycle cops. The statements above were all backed up by their experiences as well.

That said, there are other left-lane hogs here:
- The aforementioned 'clueless' driver distracted by other things. Tends to be middle class or higher and drive a relatively boring vehicle. Businessmen, 'soccer' moms, nascent dystopes, etc.
- Some outwardly religious and conservative types (we have more than our fair share here) who basically consider it a sin to even think about breaking any law -- even a speed limit. Combine that with cluelessness and/or ignorance, and well ...
- The 'I was here first' crowd. Basically, these are faster folk who, if they're in the left lane and you come up on them, they will not move over no matter what. (I usually buzz by on the right, then swing back into their lane quickly. Half the time this wakes them up, and they get over. Eventually.)
- Travelers who are simply trying to get through an area they're unfamiliar with as quickly as possible.

When I rode -- and, now, when I drive -- I do my best to stay ahead of traffic. It keeps you alive. So I weave, safely: always use turn signals, never change lanes in someone else's blind spot, etc. You have to to keep speed up. I flash headlights sometimes, but only once or twice -- after that, I look for an opportunity to pass. On the right. Even on an Interstate where it's illegal, because the cops here know as well as we do that lane discipline can't be legislated, so if you pass on the right within reason and safely, they pretty much won't do anything.

Sounds like you're saying left lane hogs can be anyone and it really depends on the individual.

I think they're driven by laziness (pun intended) and don't want to deal with switching lanes again until they need to exit the highway, other drivers be d@mned.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

So you are basically trying to cause road-rage? Wow, you must be pretty hot stuff.

Road rage goes both ways. Just because someone isn't speeding, doesn't mean they're not creating a road rage incident by being passive aggressive.

I just came back from Poland. From my observation there, for the most part, those drivers have a much better clue about driving than the general populus here in the States. If you come up to a slower driver, they will move over into the emergency pull off area of the road to allow room for the faster driver to pass even if there is a marked passing zone. Fat chance seeing that happen here.

Most people on the roads here are self appointed traffic enforcement officers. If you think someone is driving in a reckless manner, then call 911 and provide the plate number and description of the car. It shouldn't be hard for these self appointed enforcement officers as many of them are already on their damn cell phones.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Road rage goes both ways. Just because someone isn't speeding, doesn't mean they're not creating a road rage incident by being passive aggressive.

Irrelevant. People here have specifically said they will try to "get back" at the driver in the left lane in some way. That means these people trying to "get back" are trying to incite road rage.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Irrelevant. People here have specifically said they will try to "get back" at the driver in the left lane in some way. That means these people trying to "get back" are trying to incite road rage.

No it's not irrelevant. If the left lane passive aggressive person just moves over, there would be no confrontation. I'm pretty sure most everyone (even those that said they would get back at the left lane speed bump) are not psychotic. They wouldn't just single someone out and still try to incite an incident. If the person just moves over when a faster vehicle approaches, this would solve 99.999999% of the issues.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by SportySpice

Sounds like you're saying left lane hogs can be anyone and it really depends on the individual.

I think they're driven by laziness (pun intended) and don't want to deal with switching lanes again until they need to exit the highway, other drivers be d@mned.

Ha. And touche. I can see how someone might read that post and find a way to apply it to anyone. But that's not the case -- it basically identifies the several types of people that are most likely to hog the left lane in my city, not the several types of people that exclusively hog it.

Just yesterday, driving up U.S 75 from downtown in midafternoon (speed limit: 75. General flow speed: about 65, since it was still icy here and there) there was a beat-up 2007-ish gold Camry in the left lane doing about 50. Who was driving? A man of African descent, leaned over to one side of his seat and talking on his cell. He looked me straight in the eye and smirked as I (and several others) passed him on the right. I tracked him in my mirror afterward; he never moved over, sped up, or changed his pattern.

That's not laziness, man. That's abject contempt. In my book, that is reckless driving as heinous as someone speeding by 25 mph in the right lane.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

No it's not irrelevant. If the left lane passive aggressive person just moves over, there would be no confrontation. I'm pretty sure most everyone (even those that said they would get back at the left lane speed bump) are not psychotic. They wouldn't just single someone out and still try to incite an incident. If the person just moves over when a faster vehicle approaches, this would solve 99.999999% of the issues.

No, the person that is trying to cut them off by not using a turn signal, "rolling coal" as suggested above, is just as guilty. You are just stating the "he started it!" BS. If you think that is real life, then I'm sorry for you. You don't know what the other person is doing, and maybe they are in the wrong, but you don't go trying to fix a wrong by "getting back". Sounds more like some people just need to unwind and get out more, maybe move out of the city, go on some vacations, get to a place where you aren't so boxed in. QOL>money, and they aren't the same thing in my experience.

[eluded]

When I'm driving my Prius, I only drive in the left lane.

[VRG_135]

Originally Posted by eluded

When I'm driving my Prius, I only drive in the left lane.

Driving 10 miles an hour under the limit, and no headlights at night?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

No, the person that is trying to cut them off by not using a turn signal, "rolling coal" as suggested above, is just as guilty. You are just stating the "he started it!" BS. If you think that is real life, then I'm sorry for you. You don't know what the other person is doing, and maybe they are in the wrong, but you don't go trying to fix a wrong by "getting back". Sounds more like some people just need to unwind and get out more, maybe move out of the city, go on some vacations, get to a place where you aren't so boxed in. QOL>money, and they aren't the same thing in my experience.

As I said before, the person camping out in the left lane is inciting an incident rather than just moving over. So with your logic, they're the first person to "start it". I've observed many times a driver just move over to the left lane with a large clear lane already in front of them in the through lanes. Then just camp out there. Not passing anyone. Just camped there. Per many state laws and driver's ed (which is a joke here) about passing on the left, you have no choice but to pass on the right.

I observed said behavior yesterday on a drive up to NYC. On the Jersey Turnpike, some idiot moved from the right to the middle and the left lane when there were no cars ahead of him for at least a mile. When this genius made the move, there were two cars moving at about 15 to 20 MPH faster than this idiot passing on the left. The lead car had to literally jam on his brakes because the abrupt lane change and slower speed. As we all passed the speed bump, I was driving in the middle lane, he stayed firmly camped out there driving about to to 10 MPH below the general flow of traffic. Didn't matter people were blowing by him on the right.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

As I said before, the person camping out in the left lane is inciting an incident rather than just moving over. So with your logic, they're the first person to "start it". I've observed many times a driver just move over to the left lane with a large clear lane already in front of them in the through lanes. Then just camp out there. Not passing anyone. Just camped there. Per many state laws and driver's ed (which is a joke here) about passing on the left, you have no choice but to pass on the right.

I observed said behavior yesterday on a drive up to NYC. On the Jersey Turnpike, some idiot moved from the right to the middle and the left lane when there were no cars ahead of him for at least a mile. When this genius made the move, there were two cars moving at about 15 to 20 MPH faster than this idiot passing on the left. The lead car had to literally jam on his brakes because the abrupt lane change and slower speed. As we all passed the speed bump, I was driving in the middle lane, he stayed firmly camped out there driving about to to 10 MPH below the general flow of traffic. Didn't matter people were blowing by him on the right.

Thank you. Idiots like yours (and mine described above) kill people. This is demonstrated by statistics. I, for one, am not going to ignore or be passive (pun intended?) around dolts like these.

JamesNoBrakes , I have a question for you: Have you ever ridden a motorcycle on public roads? I don't want to assume ... but riding changes your outlook on these folks because when you're on a bike, this kind of behavior is among the things that frightens you the most. One innocent good driver slamming on his brakes to avoid rear-ending one of these devil-may-care low-lifes can send a motorcycle rider over the handlebars and straight to the morgue.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by VRG_135

Driving 10 miles an hour under the limit, and no headlights at night?

Correct on speed but the headlights automatically come on.

The turn signal is broken in my Prius. People seem to be offended by that. Not sure why they constantly tailgating me. They can always go around.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

JamesNoBrakes , I have a question for you: Have you ever ridden a motorcycle on public roads? I don't want to assume ... but riding changes your outlook on these folks because when you're on a bike, this kind of behavior is among the things that frightens you the most. One innocent good driver slamming on his brakes to avoid rear-ending one of these devil-may-care low-lifes can send a motorcycle rider over the handlebars and straight to the morgue.

So now you are also following too close?

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by VRG_135

I've noticed, over the years, that the left lane is almost always the slowest lane in rush hour traffic. Is that true in your area? I'm in Dallas. I think its because most people think its going to be the faster lane, so more cars are in that lane. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Haha, DFW right laner here. I also frequently take the exits that have an entrance without a stop light to get around the riff raff driving slow on the actual highway.

It's amazing how little lane discipline we have in this country. After spending a few years in Germany, the only time I had to pass a car on the right (illegally) it turned out to be two GI's clogging the lane.

It's Dallas dumbasses. The proliferation of the cell phone has multiplied the issue 10 fold.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by CIWS

It's Dallas dumbasses. The proliferation of the cell phone has multiplied the issue 10 fold.

I can't remember does DFW have the exit ramps after the on ramps? By me it's exit first then on ramp and that seems completely logical. Other parts of the country I've been to have on first then exit so you constantly have this horrible mess of people crossing over each other.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

So now you are also following too close?

Bikes typically can't stop as quick as a car.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Bikes typically can't stop as quick as a car.

Actually, a bike can stop quicker than a car when conditions are dry and clean and is operated by a skilled rider. But that's rare on high-traffic public roads ... so, yeah.

JamesNoBrakes : Just answer the question ... unless you're afraid of being shamed, because your attitude regarding this issue is rapidly devolving toward hypocrisy.