[010101]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

But then again boring is subjective, what you may find boring some people may find exciting

Boring is in general subjective, but it's not subjective in the way I meant it. I meant that Toyota makes boring cars to drive from a sports car enthusiast's point of view since we are talking about sports cars here. Obviously they do not make boring cars from an off roader's point of view or from an old woman's point of view, but we aren't talking about Baja racing are we? It is impossible to argue that Toyota doesn't make boring cars as far as sportiness goes. You were unable to name ONE single car that Toyota makes that is sporty. Not one. And this is the company that is soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world, so they make A LOT of cars.

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

Depending on the styling and the layout, it could be a huge success. If I can fit my 6'3' 200lbs frame inside it, I might seriously consider one. It could be an awesome track car.

You know a Toyota motor is going to be solid, Scooby's AWD systems are arguably the best out there. Sounds like a winner to me.

As far as Toyota being boring, yes, most of their current production cars are boring. But, Toyota is heavily involved in racing efforts, they certainly COULD make an amazing sports car if they wanted to.

Oh shit, just read it again, they say it's for the Japanese market, hopefully it will make it's way over here..

you can get a semi sample in the new WRX. It has a toyota grille on it

Originally Posted by 010101

Boring is in general subjective, but it's not subjective in the way I meant it. I meant that Toyota makes boring cars to drive from a sports car enthusiast's point of view since we are talking about sports cars here. Obviously they do not make boring cars from an off roader's point of view or from an old woman's point of view, but we aren't talking about Baja racing are we? It is impossible to argue that Toyota doesn't make boring cars as far as sportiness goes. You were unable to name ONE single car that Toyota makes that is sporty. Not one. And this is the company that is soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world, so they make A LOT of cars.

i don't know man. I think the MR2, AWs and SWs were great in their own age with the modding possibilities. They weren't awesome, but they were affordable MR layouts for enthusiasts to play with.

[010101]

Originally Posted by SpecC

i don't know man. I think the MR2, AWs and SWs were great in their own age with the modding possibilities. They weren't awesome, but they were affordable MR layouts for enthusiasts to play with.

I said the MR2 was a good car. I am talking about current production cars. If Toyota the company which is soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world didn't make boring cars from a sports car enthusiast's point of view then you would be able to name a production car they currently make that isn't boring.

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by 010101

I said the MR2 was a good car. I am talking about current production cars. If Toyota the company which is soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world didn't make boring cars from a sports car enthusiast's point of view then you would be able to name a production car they currently make that isn't boring.

sorry i misunderstood. started this thread and never really checked until yesterday hahaha. Yeah, their current cars are pretty awful in the sports range. I think they only thing they have going for them in the states at least are the Scion tCs which are terrible sports cars!

[scoop]

Toyota has already announced it will be building a new HYBRID sports car for 2009.
Before you laugh, it's supposed to churn out 400-plus HP.
It probably won't be called a Supra but if you google it, you'll come across some incredible photos.

[spacedogg]

The car will be aimed at young, urban buyers and will use a 2 liter engine and Subaru's all-wheel drive. The target price is 2 million Yen, or about $17,000 U.S.

2 Litres? $17,000? Boring.

Now if the press release read something like:

The car will be aimed at sports car aficionados and will use a twin turbo-charged 4.0 liter V8 engine developed by Toyota and Subaru's all-wheel drive system. The target price is about $68,000 U.S.

Now that would be something to be excited about.

[SpecC]

^i would hardly pass off subaru's boxer 2.0 L engines that easily. If they can turbocharge STis to 300 hp at the crank with only 2.0 liters and balance it out to make an awesome sports car worth turning heads, then why is 2.0 liters bad? People have even tuned this engine to 700-800 hp. When was the last 700 hp E90 you've heard of?

[010101]

Originally Posted by spacedogg

2 Litres? $17,000? Boring.

Now if the press release read something like:

The car will be aimed at sports car aficionados and will use a twin turbo-charged 4.0 liter V8 engine developed by Toyota and Subaru's all-wheel drive system. The target price is about $68,000 U.S.

Now that would be something to be excited about.

Go drive an Evo RS (2 liter $25,000) and a $68k V8 Mercedes back to back then talk about what's boring. Displacement doesn't mean anything. Some Evos are putting out around a thousand horsepower.

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by 010101

I said the MR2 was a good car. I am talking about current production cars. If Toyota the company which is soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world didn't make boring cars from a sports car enthusiast's point of view then you would be able to name a production car they currently make that isn't boring.

Lexus IS-F?

The soon to be production LF-A?

[010101]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

Lexus IS-F?

The soon to be production LF-A?

Big, heavy, automatic, boring luxury sedan. Not a sports car. The STI is a sports car. As for the LF-A who knows. Never seen it, never driven it. We'll see. I don't think there are any other manufacturers that don't have one sports car that are anywhere near Toyota's size.

[Cadillac Johnson]

The IS-F is a big, heavy, auto, boring luxury sedan?

How do you feel about the M5? or the E90 M3?

Why are they any different?

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

This could be a good thing- Subaru's performance + Toyota's legendary reliability and bulletproof engines (hopefully) = one hell of a car.

not if it's being built in Indiana.............

[010101]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

The IS-F is a big, heavy, auto, boring luxury sedan?

How do you feel about the M5? or the E90 M3?

Why are they any different?

Ehhh the M5 isn't a really a sports car either. Although it still isn't equipped with an automatic transmission like the Lexus is. I don't think anyone in their right mind could try to argue that the IS-F is a sports car. Anyway, none of this is really relevant since neither of the cars you named is a production car. People keep naming cars from the past and cars from the future. Like I keep saying... If Toyota didn't make boring cars as far as sportiness is concerned they would currently produce at least one car that was some what interesting, but they don't. And they are soon to be the largest manufacturer in the world.

[Cadillac Johnson]

The IS-F IS a production car..

Although it's not a sports car, I certainly wouldn't say it's boring.

So there you go, the IS-F is one car that Toyota makes that isn't boring.

Everything else they make is though...

[010101]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

The IS-F IS a production car..

Although it's not a sports car, I certainly wouldn't say it's boring.

So there you go, the IS-F is one car that Toyota makes that isn't boring.

Everything else they make is though...

We are talking about a possible sports car though. Subaru makes these, but Toyota does not. The Lexus might have power, but it is still an automatic luxury sedan. To most sports car enthusiests this is boring.

[Cadillac Johnson]

Right, but, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread (#22) Toyota is heavily involved in racing efforts, and COULD make a great sports car if they chose to.

Just because they dont have a true sports car in their current lineup, doesn't mean they arent capable of making a great one.

Let me add a little to this. Basically, looking at Toyota's past production models, as well as racing efforts at the highest level, ie. F1, Indy, Le Mans, WRC, they certainly have the capability to make a terrific sports car regardless of whether or not they have one in their current lineup.

[010101]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

Right, but, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread (#22) Toyota is heavily involved in racing efforts, and COULD make a great sports car if they chose to.

Just because they dont have a true sports car in their current lineup, doesn't mean they arent capable of making a great one.

Let me add a little to this. Basically, looking at Toyota's past production models, as well as racing efforts at the highest level, ie. F1, Indy, Le Mans, WRC, they certainly have the capability to make a terrific sports car regardless of whether or not they have one in their current lineup.

Right and BMW COULD make a sewing machine if they chose to. I was never talking about what Toyota could hypothetically make. Any car company could hypothetically make pretty much any kind of car. Toyota makes boring production cars. Even the ones that are supposed to be sporty are boring. Hell, Subaru could make only boring cars if they chose to... and Toyota could make only exciting sports cars if they chose to. Then this thread would be making the opposite argument. But it's not. Hypothetical cars are completely meaningless.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Boring Toyota/Lexus cars will outsell BMW from now until infinity.......

Toyota targets the mass........not the few.

[010101]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

Boring Toyota/Lexus cars will outsell BMW from now until infinity.......

Toyota targets the mass........not the few.

Yep, and BMW will outsell Porsche and Porsche will outsell Lotus and Lotus will outsell Ariel. Budweiser will outsell Chimay. Glock will outsell HK (when it comes to hand guns anyway). McDonolds will outsell Ruth's Cris. I guess I'm not part of the masses.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Lotus has the 1.8L toyota corolla engine........

btw......you're right........things happened for a reason.

[010101]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

Lotus has the 1.8L toyota corolla engine........

btw......you're right........things happened for a reason.

It's actually a Celica engine, unless it is also shared by the Corolla. For obvious reasons I don't really study Toyota power trains, but this is one Engine I couldn't ignore since it's in the best car I've ever drive the Exige. From my understanding the engine (excluding the head) was designed and built by Toyota and the head was developed by Yamaha. The engine was then used for the Celica and later for the Elise and Exige. Lotus retuned it slightly, but from my understanding it is pretty similar to the one used in the Celica

[ik999]

The purpose of a car from the manufacturer's point of view is not to compare favorably with competition, nor to win the hearts of enthusiasts. The purpose is to sell in order to generate profits.

If you are a driving enthusiast, and the IS350 fails to fulfill your standards, you should understand that it was not meant to. They were trying to capture the market of people who want a softer and less involving ride. Because for them, that's where the money was.