[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Sauce

996 GT3, /discussion. Sports car and automatic in the same sentence!!?!?!?!?

"I have a C6 Corvette sports car, its silver, its very fast, handles great and has an automatic transmission and can whoop any 135 sports coupe on the road".

There you have it.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by NYC6

"I have a C6 Corvette sports car, its silver, its very fast, handles great and has an automatic transmission and can whoop any 135 sports coupe on the road".

There you have it.

Sports cars are traditionally slow!!!!

Lol, no really I'm just being a troll. It is impossible to beat a GT3 for less than 60 but they only come in manuals (as do z06's because I know what your thinking ).

[GammaZeta]

A 996 GT3??? Maybe a turbo, but the 996 GT3 can barely compete with a 997.2 CS.

Plus, if an engine ever does go on a GT3, I hope you have an extra $40k lying around.

[BMWcoupe335ii]

Porsche cayman s hands down. Afterall there's no substitute.

[bga23]

Save up a few more bucks and go with a 911 C2S w/PDK. You won't regret it.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by BMWcoupe335ii

Porsche cayman s hands down. Afterall there's no substitute.

Well, maybe not a substitute, but something better, cheaper and faster...a BMW Z4M!!!

Plus the "no substitute" slogan only applies when referring to a 911. Because if you are referencing it to a Boxster or Cayman, there is a substitute, a 911!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Well, maybe not a substitute, but something better, cheaper and faster...a BMW Z4M!!!

Plus the "no substitute" slogan only applies when referring to a 911. Because if you are referencing it to a Boxster or Cayman, there is a substitute, a 911!

A Z4M and a 911 are both slower on a track than a Cayman S, especially since the Cayman started coming with an optional LSD a few years ago. Mid engine will almost always be faster than rear engine. 911's are fun for proving that a silly design can actually work, but Caymans are certainly much more sorted. A Cayman GT3 would clean house.

[BMWcoupe335ii]

^ thank you, they seem to believe that a sports car only belongs or is at home on the streets, or better yet for racing in a straight line up to 120mph on public roads

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

A Z4M and a 911 are both slower on a track than a Cayman S, especially since the Cayman started coming with an optional LSD a few years ago. Mid engine will almost always be faster than rear engine. 911's are fun for proving that a silly design can actually work, but Caymans are certainly much more sorted. A Cayman GT3 would clean house.

Well it's a good thing most driving isn't done on a track then, I'd be too afraid of having a Cayman pass me and being embarrassed about it!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Well it's a good thing most driving isn't done on a track then, I'd be too afraid of having a Cayman pass me and being embarrassed about it!

If that's the thing that keeps you up at night. There are more than a few Cayman/Boxsters with 3.8l or turbo retrofits.

[kdiggz]

what would you guys get for a dd for 60k? lightly used gtr or wait for f30 m3? cts-v might be worth a look but the resale on those is terrible. after a few years it would be worth like 30k I can imagine. I'm thinking a gtr will hold it's value so in the long run it might actually be cheaper to own. am i off base thinking that way?

[evoi19]

My picks would be a porsche. Any of those three would do just fine. lol There are a ton of low mileage cayman s or carerra s on autotrader for 60k.

[evoi19]

Originally Posted by kdiggz

what would you guys get for a dd for 60k? lightly used gtr or wait for f30 m3? cts-v might be worth a look but the resale on those is terrible. after a few years it would be worth like 30k I can imagine. I'm thinking a gtr will hold it's value so in the long run it might actually be cheaper to own. am i off base thinking that way?

There are so many good cars out there that buying a low mileage used is fine. c63, m3, z4m, cayman s, carerra s. The list goes on...

I haven't seen a low mileage gtr for a good price. People are asking $50k to $60k for one that has 50k miles on it and who knows how hard it's been driven.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Well, maybe not a substitute, but something better, cheaper and faster...a BMW Z4M!!!

Plus the "no substitute" slogan only applies when referring to a 911. Because if you are referencing it to a Boxster or Cayman, there is a substitute, a 911!

Cayman S is faster than a Z4M both on and off the track. I have owned one of each and the cayman S was not only the faster in both those aspects but also has much better balance, poise and steering feel. They both sound great, but the Porsche is the more naturally athletic car of the two and the stats show. It was down on hp yet made up for in in the fact that it was so much more capable and was much easier to push the Cayman S to the limits whereas the Z4M was a handful in comparison.
If youre talking a second generation Cayman S, it destroys the Z4M even more...so there's no comparison.
They are both very good cars I happened to enjoy but given the choice the Cayman S is the funner, more capable, better car. I would choose it over a Z4M every time.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Cayman S is faster than a Z4M both on and off the track. I have owned one of each and the cayman S was not only the faster in both those aspects but also has much better balance, poise and steering feel. They both sound great, but the Porsche is the more naturally athletic car of the two and the stats show. It was down on hp yet made up for in in the fact that it was so much more capable and was much easier to push the Cayman S to the limits whereas the Z4M was a handful in comparison.
If youre talking a second generation Cayman S, it destroys the Z4M even more...so there's no comparison.
They are both very good cars I happened to enjoy but given the choice the Cayman S is the funner, more capable, better car. I would choose it over a Z4M every time.

Disagree.

Even on the Top Gear track the Z4MR beats the Cayman S.

Also, the only reason the Cayman S may have any sort of advantage in a straight line would be the PDK over the manual, however the Z4M still posts a better time.

Funner? Most people would disagree, especially with the disconnect of the Cayman.

More Capable? Depends in which scenario. Sure in the twisty's, a mid-engine will most likely win.

Better? Quality wise Porsche usually has an edge since the M Roadster is a "parts bin car". Low production M cars aren't known for being solid, all body panels lining up, etc. They have quirks. The Cayman will be more sanitary.

And you can't really say "the Cayman destroys the Z4M, no comparison". In fact, each car is probably at the top of the sub-911 category for affordable sports cars, with the Z4M having the slight edge.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Disagree.

Even on the Top Gear track the Z4MR beats the Cayman S.

Also, the only reason the Cayman S may have any sort of advantage in a straight line would be the PDK over the manual, however the Z4M still posts a better time.

Funner? Most people would disagree, especially with the disconnect of the Cayman.

More Capable? Depends in which scenario. Sure in the twisty's, a mid-engine will most likely win.

Better? Quality wise Porsche usually has an edge since the M Roadster is a "parts bin car". Low production M cars aren't known for being solid, all body panels lining up, etc. They have quirks. The Cayman will be more sanitary.

And you can't really say "the Cayman destroys the Z4M, no comparison". In fact, each car is probably at the top of the sub-911 category for affordable sports cars, with the Z4M having the slight edge.

Not sure what you mean about even on top gear since no other test has the z4m winning. I have provided all other tests I could find on the two and one of the two of them modded vs each other. Read on and scroll down for results.
I am not talking about a Gen II Cayman S with PDK (A Cayman S PDK traps 111-112mph vs 104 for a Z4M so its not even close.) A 2006 6mt vs 6mt Z4M, the cayman S wins in a straight or on the track. Cayman S is a more connected car. Better grip, telepathic steering, better poise/more plated. The Z4M is fun no doubt, but it isnt as good at putting numbers down like the cayman S is. I found the cayman S to be a bit more fun to drive.
As far as better, Im not talking about Porsche better build quality, which is obvious, I just mean the all around better car. Performance, handling, grip, steering feel, being one of if not the best driver's car out there (in which it also won best drivers car 2 years in a row over many other much higher priced cars).

Motortrend - Cayman S faster on track, in figure eight and in straights with higher trap speed
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

C&D - Cayman S faster with faster trap
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
"And after a week comparing the Cayman S and M coupe, we've discovered that although both are spawned from roadsters and offer nearly identical performance, it was easy to choose a winner."


EVO -
Winner Cayman S
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...s_concept.html
"the Cayman is the obvious choice. You’re right, it is, but that’s because, like its big brother, the 911, the Cayman sets the class benchmark, achieving a rare balance of character and competence its rivals simply can’t match."

R&T - Cayman S faster in straights and higher trap speed
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ntation_page_3
" The Porsche was our first choice, on and off the track,"



Here is the fastest laps page for the 295 hp cayman S vs z4m
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/p...4_m_coupe.html

As you can see, the cayman S easily wins on all but 2 (of which those two are very close). So where exactly does the z4m have a slight edge or post better times? Because its CERTAINLY NOT on the track. And it ISNT in a straight line either. Not really any other place to look since when it comes to anything performance, the cayman S owns it.

Here's even a test of them modded and the Cayman S still wipes the floor with the Z4M.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/projec...s/viewall.html


Not sure what youre experience is with these two cars but it seems like its very limited. Tests (the numbers) and my personal experience in actually owning them both, the cayman S is the better performing car, better driving and generally just superior in all regards. The only edge the Z4M has in in crank power and rpms, but its about how that power gets to the ground in which the cayman S does that better too.

[Red Bread]

Another vote for Caymans consistently laying down better track times than M Coupes (or any M car, for that matter).

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Not sure what you mean about even on top gear since no other test has the z4m winning. I have provided all other tests I could find on the two and one of the two of them modded vs each other. Read on and scroll down for results.
I am not talking about a Gen II Cayman S with PDK (A Cayman S PDK traps 111-112mph vs 104 for a Z4M so its not even close.) A 2006 6mt vs 6mt Z4M, the cayman S wins in a straight or on the track. Cayman S is a more connected car. Better grip, telepathic steering, better poise/more plated. The Z4M is fun no doubt, but it isnt as good at putting numbers down like the cayman S is. I found the cayman S to be a bit more fun to drive.
As far as better, Im not talking about Porsche better build quality, which is obvious, I just mean the all around better car. Performance, handling, grip, steering feel, being one of if not the best driver's car out there (in which it also won best drivers car 2 years in a row over many other much higher priced cars).

Motortrend - Cayman S faster on track, in figure eight and in straights with higher trap speed
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

C&D - Cayman S faster with faster trap
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
"And after a week comparing the Cayman S and M coupe, we've discovered that although both are spawned from roadsters and offer nearly identical performance, it was easy to choose a winner."


EVO -
Winner Cayman S
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...s_concept.html
"the Cayman is the obvious choice. You’re right, it is, but that’s because, like its big brother, the 911, the Cayman sets the class benchmark, achieving a rare balance of character and competence its rivals simply can’t match."

R&T - Cayman S faster in straights and higher trap speed
Winner - Cayman S
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ntation_page_3
" The Porsche was our first choice, on and off the track,"



Here is the fastest laps page for the 295 hp cayman S vs z4m
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/p...4_m_coupe.html

As you can see, the cayman S easily wins on all but 2 (of which those two are very close). So where exactly does the z4m have a slight edge or post better times? Because its CERTAINLY NOT on the track. And it ISNT in a straight line either. Not really any other place to look since when it comes to anything performance, the cayman S owns it.

Here's even a test of them modded and the Cayman S still wipes the floor with the Z4M.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/projec...s/viewall.html


Not sure what youre experience is with these two cars but it seems like its very limited. Tests (the numbers) and my personal experience in actually owning them both, the cayman S is the better performing car, better driving and generally just superior in all regards. The only edge the Z4M has in in crank power and rpms, but its about how that power gets to the ground in which the cayman S does that better too.

Nope, you're wrong.

I've driven both. I've raced both.

The simple fact is that the Z4M is greater than the Cayman S.

[Pangloss]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Nope, you're wrong.

I've driven both. I've raced both.

The simple fact is that the Z4M is greater than the Cayman S.

Bzzt, thanks for playing.

You're anonymous, denying a post with academic-quality references. Back it up or don't punch the Submit button.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Nope, you're wrong.

I've driven both. I've raced both.

The simple fact is that the Z4M is greater than the Cayman S.

Let's see, I've OWNED both and have also raced both and having owned them I would say unequivocally I have far more intimate experience of them than just having driven them.
So yes it is simple, but the cayman s is far greater. Thats largely why the z4m had terrible sales whereas the cayman s is still a world class car that is compared all too often to cars two and three times its price. That was never and could never have been said for the z4m.
My personal experience is also backed up by just about ever journalist and car rag out there.
Sorry to break it to you, but the only one who is wrong is you. You have nothing to back up your "claims"...because that's all they are.
Cayman S, no matter which generation is a superior car, period. There is no stipulation and certainly no way to dispute that the cayman s is the better car and is the benchmark just like the boxster s is better than the z4m roadster and set the benchmark in that class...and they still do.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

There is no stipulation and certainly no way to dispute that the cayman s is the better car and is the benchmark just like the boxster s is better than the z4m roadster and set the benchmark in that class...and they still do.

I'm disputing it. And you're wrong.

It's not my fault you are a Cayman S fanboy and can't form an unbiased opinion.

"The Cayman is the greatest car of all time on and off the track. It's better than the 911 and Carrera GT combined and will destroy all Ferrari's that try to pass it. The Z4M is a Yugo compared to it."

Now saying the Boxster S is a better car...now you're just being silly.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

I'm disputing it. And you're wrong.

It's not my fault you are a Cayman S fanboy and can't form an unbiased opinion.

"The Cayman is the greatest car of all time on and off the track. It's better than the 911 and Carrera GT combined and will destroy all Ferrari's that try to pass it. The Z4M is a Yugo compared to it."

Now saying the Boxster S is a better car...now you're just being silly.

How is my opinion biased when every magazine and journalist shares the exact same sentiments?? Cayman S IS the BETTER car. It puts down faster laps times, is faster on a back road, is faster in the straights, and does it all while having brilliant steering feel and balance and poise that cant be matched by the Z4M. IT IS the benchmark. Has been since the day it was launched and still is.