[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

These people are protesting the effects of a free market coupled with an education. If that catapults someone into the top 1%, why should I feel sorry for those less successful who aren't willing to work as hard?

They are protesting that Wall St. took they economy into the shitter three years ago and not a single person has been imprisoned. They are protesting that politicians are the puppets Wall St. uses to get their way. They are protesting that because of Wall St. we're in a recession and for every job on the market there are five people unemployed looking for one.

I agree, don't blame everyone and there are plenty of moron hippies at these events but I wouldn't lump them altogether.

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by tag824

They are protesting that Wall St. took they economy into the shitter three years ago and not a single person has been imprisoned. They are protesting that politicians are the puppets Wall St. uses to get their way. They are protesting that because of Wall St. we're in a recession and for every job on the market there are five people unemployed looking for one.

I agree, don't blame everyone and there are plenty of moron hippies at these events but I wouldn't lump them altogether.

Wrong. The economy tanked 3 years ago primarily because of government intervention. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (GOVERNMENT sponsored entities) were buying up sub-prime mortgages. The govt not only knew of these foul loans, but also encouraged F&F to buy them! Furthermore, if those seeking a loan actually purchased a home within their means (I make 45k a year but would like a 700k home loan please with an ARM), our country would be in an entirely different situation.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

Wrong. The economy tanked 3 years ago primarily because of government intervention. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (GOVERNMENT sponsored entities) were buying up sub-prime mortgages. The govt not only knew of these foul loans, but also encouraged F&F to buy them! Furthermore, if those seeking a loan actually purchased a home within their means (I make 45k a year but would like a 700k home loan please with an ARM), our country would be in an entirely different situation.

Wall St. worked hand in hand with the gov on that. So what about those that purchased a home with a 30yr fixed and once the economy tanked are upside down on their loans?

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by tag824

Wall St. worked hand in hand with the gov on that. So what about those that purchased a home with a 30yr fixed and once the economy tanked are upside down on their loans?

You're right. The banks obviously did play a role in this situation. But for people to single-handedly point the finger and simultaneously state that wall-street is evil and the one to blame is sadly mistaken. IMO, it can mostly be traced back to too much govt intervention. Laissez faire: govt needs to keep their hands off and let the free market correct the problem...

[ChuckBMW3]

Those that purchased 30 year ARMs couldn't afford them in the first place. Like I said, too many people were buying homes they could not afford (way outside their means). And to add insult to injury, once their ARM adjusted, they could not longer afford the payment thus eventually leading to foreclosure.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

Those that purchased 30 year ARMs couldn't afford them in the first place. Like I said, too many people were buying homes they could not afford (way outside their means). And to add insult to injury, once their ARM adjusted, they could not longer afford the payment thus eventually leading to foreclosure.

*facepalm*

I said fixed.

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by tag824

*facepalm*

I said fixed.

I'm sorry you cannot understand the fundamentals of economics, finance, and real estate. It's simple: if you 100% finance a home you cannot afford, you can't make your mortgage payments, and you will eventually go into foreclosure. Adjustable Rate Mortgages exacerbate the problem; the teaser rate only lasts for a few years maximum. I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree...

**Didn't see the fixed part. I'm too tired. There were just too many people opting for ARMs. It's a cheaper way to get into a more expensive home...

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

I'm sorry you cannot understand the fundamentals of economics, finance, and real estate. It's simple: if you 100% finance a home you cannot afford, you can't make your mortgage payments, and you will eventually go into foreclosure. Adjustable Rate Mortgages exacerbate the problem; the teaser rate only lasts for a few years maximum. I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree...

If you put down 20% and got a 30yr fixed that financing 100%. Even if you made your payments you ended up upside down. I own two properties and know what I'm talking about tyvfm. And no, I'm not upside down nor are my mortgages ARMs. I'm just lucky I didn't get F'd as bad as others did with the housing collapse but did lose a bunch on equity. I don't even want to look at my 401k. smh

[ChuckBMW3]

This is nothing more than conflicting view points. Unfortunately, this is why so little is accomplished in congress. I honestly don't have the answers to fix our economic situation. I hope it happens quickly; it's difficult to see one of the greatest countries in the world to suffer like this...

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

This is nothing more than conflicting view points. Unfortunately, this is why so little is accomplished in congress. I honestly don't have the answers to fix our economic situation. I hope it happens quickly; it's difficult to see one of the greatest countries in the world to suffer like this...

On this I agree, I love my country, these United States of America and still think it's the best place in the entire world. We're all going to have to make tough life decisions together to get out of the mess we're in. The oncoming pain will sober everyone up.

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by tag824

On this I agree, I love my country, these United States of America and still think it's the best place in the entire world. We're all going to have to make tough life decisions together to get out of the mess we're in. The oncoming pain will sober everyone up.

Well said

[zetaxi165]

While I agree with the Wall Street Protestors, I believe that they should be marching on DC instead.

Anyway, I like the below video.... it explains the situation we find ourselves in

[M3Bahn]

George Carlin - the American Dream

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/1044358/

[scollins]

Originally Posted by tag824

If you put down 20% and got a 30yr fixed that financing 100%. Even if you made your payments you ended up upside down. I own two properties and know what I'm talking about tyvfm. And no, I'm not upside down nor are my mortgages ARMs. I'm just lucky I didn't get F'd as bad as others did with the housing collapse but did lose a bunch on equity. I don't even want to look at my 401k. smh

So you are upside down? So fucking what? I'm upside down, but my family needs a place to live. Should I just walk away from my house because the value went down? I still need to live somewhere.

The converse is, if the value skyrocketed, does the lender get the windfall? You can't have all the upside and none of the risk.

At the end of the day, being "upside down" is only on paper until you have to sell (not WANT to sell to dump the debt). My 30 year fixed payment is the same today as it was 6 years ago.

There is plenty of blame to go around. It is disingenuous to only blame Wall Street. They didn't hold a gun to the heads of all these fucking clowns who bought way above their means. And just because a bank is willing to give you a loan doesn't absolve you of making sure you can still afford it.

What I see in this protest is what is really wrong with the world: no personal responsibility. It is always, ALWAYS, someone else's fault for their station in life. Whether it be corporations, rich people, government, whatever.

And, for the USA, it is impossible for there to be 99% bailing out the 1%, given that 47% paid no federal income tax last year. ZERO percent of their money bailed out a bank, automaker, financial firm, etc. because they had not paid any!

Yes, they paid payroll taxes, but that goes to Medicare and SS, which theoretically they'll get back. And many not only paid no income tax, they got more back than they had withheld! WTF?

"you" is generic, not specifically you tag824...

[Tag]

Originally Posted by scollins

So you are upside down? So fucking what? I'm upside down, but my family needs a place to live. Should I just walk away from my house because the value went down? I still need to live somewhere.

Of course you shouldn't walk away, but you're a perfect example of what I was speaking about. You did everything right, didn't buy out of your means and still got F'd in the. For shame.

[M3Bahn]

It not just the top 1%, you have companies gaming the system as well.

Google 2.4% Rate Shows How $60 Billion Lost to Tax Loopholes

Google Inc. cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda.

Google’s income shifting -- involving strategies known to lawyers as the “Double Irish” and the “Dutch Sandwich” -- helped reduce its overseas tax rate to 2.4 percent, the lowest of the top five U.S. technology companies by market capitalization, according to regulatory filings in six countries.

“It’s remarkable that Google’s effective rate is that low,” said Martin A. Sullivan, a tax economist who formerly worked for the U.S. Treasury Department. “We know this company operates throughout the world mostly in high-tax countries where the average corporate rate is well over 20 percent.”
The U.S. corporate income-tax rate is 35 percent. In the U.K., Google’s second-biggest market by revenue, it’s 28 percent.

Google, the owner of the world’s most popular search engine, uses a strategy that has gained favor among such companies as Facebook Inc. and Microsoft Corp. The method takes advantage of Irish tax law to legally shuttle profits into and out of subsidiaries there, largely escaping the country’s 12.5 percent income tax. (See an interactive graphic on Google’s tax strategy here.)

The earnings wind up in island havens that levy no corporate income taxes at all. Companies that use the Double Irish arrangement avoid taxes at home and abroad as the U.S. government struggles to close a projected $1.4 trillion budget gap and European Union countries face a collective projected deficit of 868 billion euros.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...loopholes.html

[scollins]

Originally Posted by tag824

Of course you shouldn't walk away, but you're a perfect example of what I was speaking about. You did everything right, didn't buy out of your means and still got F'd in the. For shame.

True, but it is still just a paper loss at this point. We have no plans to move until our youngest is out of high school (12 years from now). We'll either be really fucked (most likely), or my value has recovered and I'm sitting on a very nice chunk of equity.

I think too many are freaking out about being upside down when it doesn't actually impact their life. Then they decide to do something about it (default, shift the blame/debt/loss to someone else). The housing losses may have been stemmed actually without government interference. They made it way too easy for people to walk away. That action happened under Obama too (debt forgiveness).

[Blake]

Originally Posted by achien

99% of the people bailing out the other 1%. I call it "transfer of wealth". in past history, some call it fraud and outright corruption, which led to downfall of governments.

if you are paying taxes, you should be concern, if you are not, then it doesn't really matter to you.

unfortunately, it has gone on for than a month at Wall Street now. it has spread to almost 1,000 cities world wide.

after the downfall of communism 20 years ago, would this be the beginning of the end for capitalism and into socialism? worse yet, would civil unrest lead to anarchy?

why do you even care? according to all the red and white on your posts, you're canadian. why do you exactly feel compelled to start this thread? you specify occupy wall street, but you don't even live here. did you just start this to stir up emotions? that's not very canadian of you.

at any rate, your diatribe is about as far left as it goes. you're obviously a staunch supporter of the unknown movement. it seriously has 0 identity. it's just a bunch of people pissed off at everything. these people have no facts and are just protesting because "it's the woodstock of our day." so why the fuck should we pay attention?

fact: the top 1% accounts for 40% of the government's income. above $33k/yr accounts for 97% of the government's income. the people that are complaining should be the bottom 3%, but are just protesting because it's cool. the grievances presented are basically ascertaining that they're all poor and destitute. i haven't seen a person that's actually in the 99% protesting so far. they're too busy working. true story.

if you were actually american and know what's going on, the government spends too much money on everything. we fight silly wars that have no end, we give way too much aide, and we bail out the private sector. it's my belief that the government should be strictly laissez-faire in anything financial. if a bank fails, the government shouldn't be involved. government should be self defense, general protection and welfare of the people (this does not mean a free paycheck), and accountability. these protesters don't even know what they're trying to change. it's just a bunch of idiots being mad and beating drums.

Originally Posted by GregTheStig

I believe in economic equality and I too am pissed that the guys responsible for the '08 collapse are going unpunished, but I'm not actually taking part in the protests.

economic equality is communism.

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

1. If these individuals implemented a fraction of the amount time they have spent at this protest(s) actively searching for a job (and not milking the govt's entitlement programs-that's a whole separate story) then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Nothing more than "justification" for lack of education...

you're on to something, although a job isn't easy to find these days unless it's a technical job. another true story.

[driersheets]

i farted and the economy got better. thats what my econ 101 says

[Vanity]

Saw these protests here in Downtown Vancouver. Some of the signs are laughable: "Unlimited growth = Zombie Economy".

They all looked like hippies too. They're down there sleeping in masses in tents playing drums past midnight and talking about how they're so mad and won't take it anymore. Take what?

IMO, This isn't a middle-class up-rising. These are fringe groups who have the time to protest and have nothing better. The whole movement is about targeting the "biggest income inequality generator" in the world when in actuality the top 1% in wall street support 40% of the economy through taxes.

Yes. Yes. Let's occupy Wall Street more and scare more financial jobs overseas. Let's destroy the only real economy left in the united states, next to fast foods, because that's a plan!

[hks786]

I agree that most of them seem like hippies but I seen a few interviews and some people are actually local businessmen taking time off work to be part of the movement. So I think it's unfair to tar them all with the same brush. Also, some people genuinely do look for work but find it hard to get by but I also know that some people are just lazy.

IMO the banking system was destined to fail because in it's current form it just promotes greed and debt. I do think it's annoying that when you have a critical and questioning mind people call you a conspiracy theorist. I think the real "conspiracy theories" are the crap governments feed us everyday and despite been proven as liars we turn on the T.V. and believe everything we hear.

Bottom line for me is that the people who fucked up the world are not being held liable for it. Noone from any government or bank has been punished. Over here we've got banks that have still not paid back their debt to the taxpayer yet their top bankers are receiving a bonus. Whilst it might be perfectly legal, it's still BS.

[chrisN]

i love australia