[pbonsalb]

It’s not just rich kids that avoid justice or get off easy. Rich adults pay teams of lawyers to drag cases out for years and file numerous appeals. Delays rarely help the overworked government lawyers. I can think of some examples that have been in the news a lot over the last few years.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

It’s not just rich kids that avoid justice or get off easy. Rich adults pay teams of lawyers to drag cases out for years and file numerous appeals. Delays rarely help the overworked government lawyers. I can think of some examples that have been in the news a lot over the last few years.

You can even do so and get another stint of free rent in the White House.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

You can even do so and get another stint of free rent in the White House.

You can also pardon your scumbag son for crimes that would have landed any normal person in prison years ago. And pardon him for any crimes "that may have been committed" that haven't been prosecuted yet.

The elite and rich in our country life by their own set of rules. It's bullshit all around.

[LuisBoston]

Not sure I know a father who given power would not pardon their son.

Equating a father pardoning his child to a convicted felon is reaching.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You can also pardon your scumbag son for crimes that would have landed any normal person in prison years ago. And pardon him for any crimes "that may have been committed" that haven't been prosecuted yet.

The elite and rich in our country life by their own set of rules. It's bullshit all around.

[I800C0LLECT]

I think the real issue is that we give a driving license to just about anybody. After being in Germany...I know it's about $5K to get a license, but those people follow rules of the road and hardly have any of the issues we do...because they follow the simple rules.

1) Right Lane cannot pass Left Lane
2) Left Lane is passing only
3) There are no friendly gestures, you follow right of way.
4) Driving slow is NOT SAFE!!

Also, if you are involved in an accident and they find out you have a brake light out or other simple maintenance issues...you are not financially responsible for the entire accident. YOU WILL MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE!! It's kind of a big deal to them. That's why they are so focused on preventative maintenance.

Owning and operating a vehicle is big a responsibility and should not be taken lightly.

[24CBX4M40i]

Originally Posted by DocL

I live in the city where this happened. There are so many entitled kids here who have zero accountability for their actions. This kid should have gotten at least 10 years per person killed. I can't speak with confidence, or any knowledge, but there had to be a behind the door deal made with the state.

Was this that Somali kid on the PGA bridge?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Dozer324

Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. The issue is probably parenting. Plenty of kids drive their parents expensive cars without doing triple the speed limit

While I would never disagree with DMX, reality is teens’ brains are not fully developed. Young, immature, throw in group of friends… it’s easy to forget how much stupid crap we did. Granted I never drove that fast in my old Hyundai (back before it was a respectable brand). Kid made a mistake. Parents should’ve never bought a M5, but guessing that won’t happen again.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by 24CBX4M40i

Was this that Somali kid on the PGA bridge?

Huh? I was referencing the OP's link. I have no idea about a Somali kid on the PGA Bridge? Sorry.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

While I would never disagree with DMX, reality is teens’ brains are not fully developed. Young, immature, throw in group of friends… it’s easy to forget how much stupid crap we did. Granted I never drove that fast in my old Hyundai (back before it was a respectable brand). Kid made a mistake. Parents should’ve never bought a M5, but guessing that won’t happen again.

This.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by 24CBX4M40i

Was this that Somali kid on the PGA bridge?

PGA bridge was the kid I posted about with the pizza guy and the Cayenne Turbo. Doing drugs and drinking on Jack Nicklaus 's yacht.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

Not sure I know a father who given power would not pardon their son.

Equating a father pardoning his child to a convicted felon is reaching.

Not if you look into what the felonies "were" vs what Hunter did. But some people will hate trump no matter what the facts are, so it doesn't really matter.

IMO, trying to peddle access to the US Government leadership is way worse than any sort of accounting irregularities or NDA payments.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

You can even do so and get another stint of free rent in the White House.

God, get the fuck over it.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Will his parents be sentenced too?

Or the local government that issues driving licenses?
I mean, drivers education to get a license in the USA is a joke compared to other western developed countries.
And you see that in annual traffic deaths ratings. Compared to the EU, the USA would rank pretty much lowest: In 2022, in the US that number was about 128 deaths per 1million people, whereas the highest in europe, that is in Bulgaria and Romania, which are pretty much considered 3rd world countries in europe, that number was 80 and 86 per million.
The more structured and developed north western EU countries (which are also more densely populated compared to both the US and countries like Bulgaria and Romania), like Germany, the Netherlands, the UK etc....they are all around 30-40 deaths per million. So roughly 3 times as low as in the USA.

To get a drivers license in those countries, most people have to take about 30-40 lessons and take the exam twice (or sometimes more I know lots of people that had to take it 5 times for example and took ages) over a period of about 1 year to get their license (total cost is often around €3k-€5k).
(and for motorcycles, those rules are even more strickt)

So to get traffic deaths down to more modern standards, especially amongst teen drivers, that's what it takes imo.
Better infrastructure design and road maintenance also helps...

Tbh I'm not sure if that 12,5 year sentence is justified. Yes it was a horrendous accident, and clearly he was at fault, but that's a very long time for a teen. And teens do stupid things. But it's still an accident.
I think roughly half that or 3/4 that would've been good too.

It's up to the more wiser people in society that make the rules to find solutions for problems that are clearly present on this matter.
I guess my point is that I mostly see people (not only here, also else in the net) root for higher punishment (because they clearly think it's too low), but hardly anyone roots for a safer and more educated system, whereas that clearly has the biggest impact on the annual traffic related death toll.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Tbh I'm not sure if that 12,5 year sentence is justified. Yes it was a horrendous accident, and clearly he was at fault, but that's a very long time for a teen. And teens do stupid things. But it's still an accident.
I think roughly half that or 3/4 that would've been good too.

It's up to the more wiser people in society that make the rules to find solutions for problems that are clearly present on this matter.
I guess my point is that I mostly see people (not only here, also else in the net) root for higher punishment (because they clearly think it's too low), but hardly anyone roots for a safer and more educated system, whereas that clearly has the biggest impact on the annual traffic related death toll.

He killed 6 people. Pretty sure if those 6 people were your family you'd think 12 years is a slap on the wrist. 6 people! That's 2 years per person he killed.

The fact that this loser will get out as a young man after killing 6 people is an utter disgrace. He should never see the light of day again. People (especially teens)do dumb things, but when you don't have very very serious consequences, it's no big deal. Parents and people need to be held accountable to teach and their kids to make smart choices. That's families shattered because a teenage "made a dumb choice". No, he made a murderous choice and killed 6 people who did nothing wrong.

If we think at 16 that kids aren't able to think and make smart choices, they're not old enough to drive. Period. If they're mature enough to have the privilege of driving, they're mature enough to have the responsibility of severe consequences.

That said, I agree that our system needs an overhaul. I will always be an advocate for a system like you get in video games. New drivers are restricted to vehicles with very low performance. Through a combination of experience, testing, and training, you can earn your way into a higher performance level. Vehicle performance and size will both be part of the classification system, so a 16 year old can't have a M5 as a first car or a suburban. Being able to drive a high powered car should be something that takes effort to be certified for.

[MaxVO2]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

He killed 6 people. Pretty sure if those 6 people were your family you'd think 12 years is a slap on the wrist. 6 people! That's 2 years per person he killed.

The fact that this loser will get out as a young man after killing 6 people is an utter disgrace. He should never see the light of day again. People (especially teens)do dumb things, but when you don't have very very serious consequences, it's no big deal. Parents and people need to be held accountable to teach and their kids to make smart choices. That's families shattered because a teenage "made a dumb choice". No, he made a murderous choice and killed 6 people who did nothing wrong.

If we think at 16 that kids aren't able to think and make smart choices, they're not old enough to drive. Period. If they're mature enough to have the privilege of driving, they're mature enough to have the responsibility of severe consequences.

****Well said.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

If we think at 16 that kids aren't able to think and make smart choices, they're not old enough to drive.

What do you think my thoughts are on that
In most countries it's 18.

I just don't think that raising his punishment to 20, 40 or 60 years will change anything to whether or not young kids will speed in their M5, or rich parents giving their entitled kids an M5 (or other cars for that matter, all modern cars will do well over 130mph, and a big heavy pickup at 110mph is probably just as dangerous for the surrounding traffic).

The US drivers license system is just very amateuristic imho, and the US as a country lacks so much behind other countries when it comes to annual traffic deaths per capita, to an extend that it's almost unbelievable for the richest, most powerful country in the world. Other developed countries just do better on this subject. And by a huge margin, that's the most noticeable part.
But somehow the average US opinion seems to be that heavier punishments makes for better drivers. At least that's the vibe I'm getting. And I don't agree with that.
Limiting engine power on age or experience is indeed a good system, but I think giving drivers a more thorough driving education/test is the place to start.
I don't know of any country that does age restricted engine power on cars, but on motorcycles drivers licenses that's a very normal system. In Europe at least.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

What do you think my thoughts are on that
In most countries it's 18.

I just don't think that raising his punishment to 20, 40 or 60 years will change anything to whether or not young kids will speed in their M5, or rich parents giving their entitled kids an M5 (or other cars for that matter, all modern cars will do well over 130mph, and a big heavy pickup at 110mph is probably just as dangerous for the surrounding traffic).

The US drivers license system is just very amateuristic imho, and the US as a country lacks so much behind other countries when it comes to annual traffic deaths per capita, to an extend that it's almost unbelievable for the richest, most powerful country in the world.

Seize all their assets and put the parents in prison right alongside them. When there are SEVERE consequences, people think twice about doing stupid things. If this kids family thought there was a chance they would lose everything, their money, their freedom, their future, everything by giving their irresponsible 16 year old a high powered car, they wouldn't have done it.

I don't disagree that our license system is pathetic. That kid should have never been allowed to drive an M5. But the auto industry (especially the EV industry) would lobby the life out of any attempt to do that.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Seize all their assets and put the parents in prison right alongside them. When there are SEVERE consequences, people think twice about doing stupid things. If this kids family thought there was a chance they would lose everything, their money, their freedom, their future, everything by giving their irresponsible 16 year old a high powered car, they wouldn't have done it.

A monetairy compensation for the victims for sure is a means to do justice too, and of course often an path following the legal lawsuit. If that goes via their parents, that might work (I don't know how legally possible that is)
I think teens aren't really deterred by heavy punishments, but parents are probably more so.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

But the auto industry (especially the EV industry) would lobby the life out of any attempt to do that.

I rate EV's just as dangerous or even more so. Acceleration of modern EV's is just insane and there is still not coming an end to that in the near future.
Also, without a screaming engine, you lack the input/reminder of how quickly how fast you're going. It's just so easy to accelerate to 100mph in a dead quiet cockpit (which is of course a lethal speed, especially doing that in an urban area).
And of course a lot of them are really heavy, so they carry much more energy when going the same speed. And especially on snow days...if I look at accident data, on snow days that's about 100 times as high as on a normal day here, and a heavier car is just so much more difficult to control and slow down in the snow...

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

A monetairy compensation for the victims for sure is a means to do justice too, and of course often an path following the legal lawsuit. If that goes via their parents, that might work (I don't know how legally possible that is)
I think teens aren't really deterred by heavy punishments, but parents are probably more so.


I rate EV's just as dangerous or even more so. Acceleration of modern EV's is just insane and there is still not coming an end to that in the near future.
Also, without a screaming engine, you lack the input/reminder of how quickly how fast you're going. It's just so easy to accelerate to 100mph in a dead quiet cockpit (which is of course a lethal speed, especially doing that in an urban area).
And of course a lot of them are really heavy, so they carry much more energy when going the same speed.

A child can ABSOLUTELY cause legal ramifications for their parents. That's a settled legal fact. Parents get charged for giving their kids guns and things like that all the time. This is no different.

Agreed about EVs. Their weight and acceleration should put them in a fairly high performance classification. Hence why that industry would lobby it to death. If their customers had to be experienced, trained, and have proven capabilities from a series of driving and written tests, they'd have basically no market. There would be a few, but nowhere near enough to move the metal. They'd have to dramatically limit their power, and would lose a key selling point, the unlimited power they're allowed to produce without a y enervy usage controls.

[I800C0LLECT]

The issue here is that as a society we don't take driving seriously. How do I know?... I've watched several people run red lights this week alone. They weren't 16. As a whole we take driving for granted.

Also, we don't design our cities for pedestrian traffic or alternate means of transportation. You aren't allowed to decide against owning a vehicle without punishing yourself with miles and miles of biking or walking unless you're lucky enough to have a decent bus route available. Try to get somewhere without the stuff if an interstate... Is really difficult in majority of the USA.

The roads are too complex and I've never heard of somebody failing an actual driving test... Yet everybody drives sub par. Complex design and poor driving is an awful mix.

Harsh penalties for a death is too late. We need to demand better drivers and not on the backs of a Justice system.

[BlkGS]

This case has nothing to do with road design or bad drivers. It has to do with irresponsible kids with unlimited budgets and zero responsibility. You can't blame roads for someone deciding to go 150+ on city streets. That's not road design, road complexity, inadequate licensing, or any of the other excuses.

This was flat out, a kid who did not care about consequences, who he hurt, or any of that. He thought daddy's money made him invincible. He was more correct than many of us would like to admit.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by mjr24

God, get the fuck over it.

TDS.