[tranquility]

Some ppl are so adverse to change it's hilarious, and just cuz the tech isn't there yet doesn't mean it won't be in the future. Funnily enough these are probably the same ppl who make manufacturers foolishly think it's a good idea to pipe fake exhaust noises into the cabin just to appease these zealots.

Bring back those steam-powered vehicles I say LOL. /s

[MOTOP]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Yeah this guy is a joke, you should listen what he says about BMW's and Germans cars in general. According to him the only good car to buy is an old-school Lexus or Toyota Camry.

He also likes Fords with V8.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Some ppl are so adverse to change it's hilarious, and just cuz the tech isn't there yet doesn't mean it won't be in the future. Funnily enough these are probably the same ppl who make manufacturers foolishly think it's a good idea to pipe fake exhaust noises into the cabin just to appease these zealots.

Bring back those steam-powered vehicles I say LOL. /s

And the EVangelists are the same types of people who don't give a shit about cars and just desire a virtue signaling iPhone on wheels.

The extreme generalizations go both ways my friend.

[FC4]

It's funny how poor people just divide themselves into groups and go at it. LOL.

[Alfisti]

I am not a renowned fence sitter (!) but feel EV's will top out at about 30% market share, I see charging as the main obstacle. I can then see Hybrid taking another 30 to 35% and then the ICE the rest.

No one will hit their targets in 2030 or whatever year, too many people need good, cheap reliable cars (think Covi/corolla/elantra) and EV's are simply not going to be at that price point in 8 years.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

And the EVangelists are the same types of people who don't give a shit about cars and just desire a virtue signaling iPhone on wheels.

The extreme generalizations go both ways my friend.

The truth hurts and there are more rabid extremists one way vs the other, I don't see ppl wrecking reg cars vs doing lots of immature stuff against EVs. Funny thing is that I couldn't care less about EVs but think it's hilarious some ppl really go hard at them, my 'friend'. Can't stop progress. Besides, a different engine is just a medium, I tend to look at the car as a whole. Ppl get hung up crazily on things.

[PYE46M3]

The only car worth buying

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

And the EVangelists are the same types of people who don't give a shit about cars and just desire a virtue signaling iPhone on wheels.

The extreme generalizations go both ways my friend.

You should try telling that to the people racing EVs.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am not a renowned fence sitter (!) but feel EV's will top out at about 30% market share, I see charging as the main obstacle. I can then see Hybrid taking another 30 to 35% and then the ICE the rest.

No one will hit their targets in 2030 or whatever year, too many people need good, cheap reliable cars (think Covi/corolla/elantra) and EV's are simply not going to be at that price point in 8 years.

^This
Then there is the used market as well of good cheap reliable runners available, for years ahead
It will take decades before EVs become mainstream

[Alfisti]

I feel once you hit 30pc or whatever you are mainstream but I cannot see how, in developed countries, EV's can replace the $20k out the door reliable work horses. Now, i say that assuming gas prices don't explode, if gas is 50% more than it is today then all bets are off.

EV's make an excellent second car or commuter car, i feel we will find a way to produce the needed energy. My biggest question mark is charging, we will need an unimaginable amount of public chargers to make this work, much, much more than gas stations as the process is longer. Who is paying for that? Home charging is not possible for a monumental amount of people. No one seems to have thought of this on the EV evangelical side.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

EV's make an excellent second car or commuter car, i feel we will find a way to produce the needed energy. My biggest question mark is charging, we will need an unimaginable amount of public chargers to make this work, much, much more than gas stations as the process is longer. Who is paying for that? Home charging is not possible for a monumental amount of people. No one seems to have thought of this on the EV evangelical side.

New apartment constructions are going up with chargers in place. Lots of businesses have chargers. While not free, the cost is just a fraction of what a gas station costs, so they can be put in so many more places and become so much more practical. This is even a boon in rural areas, where the closest gas station may be a lot further than the closest 220v. The charging issue is slowly solving itself as we get more and more cars in circulation. Yeah, no everyone can use electric cars yet, it will take a while before the infrastructure can support "most" people using them, but there IS infrastructure here and now and they are able to charge. The guys that bring the Teslas to the race track go and find an outlet to plug into while they are not racing, I'm not kidding. Not even everyone that races even drives their car to/from the racetrack, but these guys do. My point being, these are not insurmountable issues. They are being solved.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

New apartment constructions are going up with chargers in place. Lots of businesses have chargers. While not free, the cost is just a fraction of what a gas station costs, so they can be put in so many more places and become so much more practical. This is even a boon in rural areas, where the closest gas station may be a lot further than the closest 220v. The charging issue is slowly solving itself as we get more and more cars in circulation. Yeah, no everyone can use electric cars yet, it will take a while before the infrastructure can support "most" people using them, but there IS infrastructure here and now and they are able to charge. The guys that bring the Teslas to the race track go and find an outlet to plug into while they are not racing, I'm not kidding. Not even everyone that races even drives their car to/from the racetrack, but these guys do. My point being, these are not insurmountable issues. They are being solved.

I think PHEVs might be the mainstream in the next 10-20 years. The X5 45e is quite close, in that the battery range needs to get to around 100 miles in pure EV mode while having fast charging capabilities. Right now the range is in the 30 miles and the charging is slow. Otherwise, the performance, comfort, and price are great.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

People here may not like it, but he is pretty much correct that most German cars are over-engineered vehicles that will not last 200K miles plus.

If you accept the fact that he is talking to the masses who think of a car as just another appliance, he is pretty much spot on.

When it comes to German cars he tends to recommend leasing them, which is something I'm pretty sure a lot of people here do.

Lol.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

When he was young cars were made the way he thinks they should be made...with a crank to start it up and three on the tree to drive.

Yeah, I'm about as old as he is and wrenched on cars from the 1960's onward. None of those cars from back in the day last as long and break less than a modern vehicle.

His crap about the Bronco is amusing. I'd love to see him actually try to work in the automotive manufacturing sector and throw in COVID to boot. He'd get his ass handed to him.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

My point being, these are not insurmountable issues. They are being solved.

I am not saying no one is working on it, i am saying we are million miles from being ready for mass adoption and 8 years is nowhere near enough time. Hence my prediction for a 1/3rd market split between the three options.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

Agree completely on leasing, but then again we tend to keep our cars. Current ones are less than a year old, 11 years old and going on 20 years old. Actually my BMW was the first car in ages that we did not keep for at least 10 years.

So in response to the post after this one:



I do

I have four (4) active BMWs in my fleet. The average age is 17 and average mileage is 212.5K.

Scotty can come over to my house and see how long German BMWs can last. Lol.

[hellrotm]

It is like this guy thinks everyone buys a car and drives it for 100K+ miles. Most everyone I know just doesn't do that anymore. 2-3years and on to the next car, most likely leasing. For those that do drive their cars into the ground or buy used higher mileage vehicles, by all means wait until battery tech is more advanced.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am not a renowned fence sitter (!) but feel EV's will top out at about 30% market share, I see charging as the main obstacle. I can then see Hybrid taking another 30 to 35% and then the ICE the rest.

No one will hit their targets in 2030 or whatever year, too many people need good, cheap reliable cars (think Covi/corolla/elantra) and EV's are simply not going to be at that price point in 8 years.

Agree, although I don't have a guess on % share of the market. But we are very far from where infrastructure needs to be for full adoption. Also solid state battery tech is needed for EV to go mainstream. Some say we are a good decade from solid state batteries being ready for automotive application. 2030 is optimistic for sure. For the brands that have stated they will be full EV by 2030, they will be all competing for a still small portion of the vehicle market.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Interesting. A few things though, 7years to balance out a 25mpg car vs EV. Who keeps their car for 7 years? I'll hang onto my MB diesel GLK which is currently getting about 34mpg highway (most of my driving). A lot of what he talks about is hypothesized and based on Tesla's numbers which may be somewhat self serving. Also, I can't remember the last time I bought a new car so the numbers for me become very skewed, and the thought of buying a used EV, ah not thanks given the ticking time bomb that could be battery replacement.

Assuming this is 100% accurate, it shouldn’t matter whether you personally keep the car for 1 year or 10 years. As long as somebody is driving it, whether you or the next owner, isn’t that what actually matters?

[yousefnjr]

On third year with the i3 and it’s been the most reliable BMW I’ve ever had, not a single issue. No “fooling” necessary…

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Leasing is one of the all time great myths, around here anyways. I owned a used X3 5 years old, so had the water pump failure, needed rotors/pads etc and still, even counting depreciation, my monthly cost to own was a SOLID $250 month less than a lease on the same vehicle over 3 years.

I have no issue with people leasing, we are free to make the choice, but this narrative that it is cheaper than repairing a used german car is not true.

It’s more true for the high end models where parts are expensive and they get cute with the engineering. Whether the savings are worth it to you is a personal choice, but even in your stated case I think it’s reasonable for somebody to prefer having a brand new car with no water pump headaches etc

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

It’s more true for the high end models where parts are expensive and they get cute with the engineering. Whether the savings are worth it to you is a personal choice, but even in your stated case I think it’s reasonable for somebody to prefer having a brand new car with no water pump headaches etc

Yeah like i said, each to his own but I see comments that a new car, especially leased, is cheaper than an old one due to repairs. It's simply not sans catastrophic engine failure really.