[RM7]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Actually it will have nothing to do with the stick and everything to do with the moment they drive into a Cadillac lot and sit in the car. The product and dealership experience will come up short in all the areas that BMW still excels at.

I had this feeling when I took the Alfa Giulia and the Maserati Ghibli/Levante for a spin.

Honestly, I don't give a flying F as long as the car works and is fun to drive. The BMW dealership parked my car into a curb and damaged the front lip. I'd also rather not have to bring my car to the dealership in the first place when the rear half of the car decides to suddenly stop working (rear computer just up and died one day). This "area" is way way overblown. It's not I go to BMW and they give me a happy ending.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Why does that matter? My wife hasn't been able to drive my car the whole 11 years we've been married. She has her own car.

But you know it matters, maybe not for you, but the vast majority of people that "want" to buy the car, but realize they can't (and keep their relationships).

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

But you know it matters, maybe not for you, but the vast majority of people that "want" to buy the car, but realize they can't (and keep their relationships).

Hmm, okay? Like I said, my wife has her car. She can't pee out of the fly of my undies either, but that doesn't keep me from buying underwear.

Manuals are dying for all sorts of reasons, spousal approval is probably pretty low to the bottom of the list of reasons.

[RMachuca3d]

Whats keeping Cadillac back since they introduced the ATS, was the obvious parts bin frankensteining of their car, I was so close to buying the ATS turbo when it came out, took it for a test drive and could not get past the damn crown vic (reminded me of it since i had a P71 back in the day) instrument panel, something I'd be staring at every day, couldnt get past it.

With the new digital dashes thats resolved, lets see how well they price them.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by HolyBull

I'm hearing lots of Cadillac owners in Socal are going over to Genesis. I guess we'll know for sure in a few years if we see lots of pre owned Genesis with 24 inch wheels in South LA.

While I'm not a huge fan of the exterior on some of the new Genesis, mainly the rear end, they do seem pretty nice and the interiors look great. I have not driven one of the newest ones, but did get a genesis back when it was still just one model and it was still a hyundai, as a rental. It was nice, but was very boat like in how it drove. I actually think the XTS drove 100x better than that Genesis, but again I have not driven one of the new ones. Very tempting though, especially for the price.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Why does that matter? My wife hasn't been able to drive my car the whole 11 years we've been married. She has her own car.

Same here.....one of the reasons why I like a manual...so that my wife can't drive it.

[cooolone2]

GM suffers the same affliction as BMW, is that they protect the "Brand"...

You might think 85k is a deal, but it's a dumbed down Corvette! Just as BMW gives you a taste of "M" performance with the M Sport badging.

It's all good as long as you look at it realistically and don't fall for the koolaid thinking you're getting more than what you're paying for.

Any quite frankly, anything under a Vette is clunky, heavy and loose, lol.

BMW does balanced performance and cost, again, you get what you pay for. So the real question will be looking at the upside or ceiling the engines and platforms allow for. I believe ideally, with the BMW, especially the B/S58 now, that the ceiling is much higher than what you'll be able to do with the GM variety. Just my $.02...

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

GM suffers the same affliction as BMW, is that they protect the "Brand"...

You might think 85k is a deal, but it's a dumbed down Corvette!

It's all good as long as you look at it realistically and don't fall for the koolaid thinking you're getting more than what you're paying for.

Any quite frankly, anything under a Vette is clunky, heavy and loose, lol.

B.

Go figure. A 5 passenger sedan is clunky, heavy and loose compared to a 2 seat, mid-engine sports car..

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I gave the ATS a look when I was shopping for my 335i. I thought the Caddy's handling was superior; but the CUE system was a dealbreaker. I'd give these a look when they're on the street. I don't think Caddy is tying a hand behind their back like BMW is by adhering to European emission standards.

[GKay]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Actually it will have nothing to do with the stick and everything to do with the moment they drive into a Cadillac lot and sit in the car. The product and dealership experience will come up short in all the areas that BMW still excels at.

I had this feeling when I took the Alfa Giulia and the Maserati Ghibli/Levante for a spin.

Mmm yeah that BMW dealer experience.
When I called 8 of the dealers near me for a quote on an M4 half didn't reply.


Or when I went to get service on my M4 and was offered a 20K MSRP Nissan loaner.


I've had better service with my Acura than at the BMW dealer.

[Donatello.]

Not seeing a car worth $85k here. I am also not in the has to be a manual camp so I'm going to pass

[New2Roundel]

I really like what Caddy is trying to achieve and I respect underlying excellence of the platform that their modern sedans are built on. But for me, the timing is all wrong. Personally, I don't want the car the replaces my e92 M to be another sedan-based coupe. I have a SUV for regular driving and I'd like more of a true sports car: corvette, cayman, 4c, etc. I know Caddy has tried the vette-based sport car in the past, but I do think they're in a great position currently to offer a 2-seat FR sports car, like a C7, since chevy now sells the MR C8. If Caddy came out with more of a true sports car, that's something I'd consider.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

While that sounds cool in theory, I'm not sure how well that would work, since the Cadillac would likely be more expensive and then people would argue why wouldn't you just spend $60k on a mid-engined corvette, especially when reviews are saying the Corvette's interior is now very nice.

I guess my point is there's now room in the GM lineup for another dedicated sports car---it doesn't have to be a rebadged vette. But yeah, from an execution perspective, I have no idea what's possible. I think it's definitely possible for something like this to exist, but it's also not without its own challenges. For me, personally, I dislike the styling of the C8 and the lack of a manual. Caddy could pull a page out of the Aston Martin playbook and put something together that's a bit sexier than it is a serious performance car---for example.

I have no idea really, but someone who's far more clever than me could probably find a way to make this work.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

I really like what Caddy is trying to achieve and I respect underlying excellence of the platform that their modern sedans are built on. But for me, the timing is all wrong. Personally, I don't want the car the replaces my e92 M to be another sedan-based coupe. I have a SUV for regular driving and I'd like more of a true sports car: corvette, cayman, 4c, etc. I know Caddy has tried the vette-based sport car in the past, but I do think they're in a great position currently to offer a 2-seat FR sports car, like a C7, since chevy now sells the MR C8. If Caddy came out with more of a true sports car, that's something I'd consider.

Sounds like this might be right up your alley then if they decide to green light it. A Caddy with roots to the Allante and the XLR’s of the past. A serious two seater, Cadillac sports machine. I’d love to see them rolling off GM lines. I would be somewhat interested but I’m a Corvette guy waiting for the C8 Z06 to come along. I think this proposed XLR will sell pretty darn well. Please GM, build it!
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/cadill...-ar183681.html

[cfm56d7b]

As long as there are multiple automobile brands, there will be strong opinions about each brand and the vehicle line up.

As difficult as it may be to believe, GM still hasn't recovered from having too many sub-brands with confusing or at times impossible-to-understand transition points between cars with each sub-brand. Pontiac and Oldsmobile offered their own version of badge-engineered vehicles and later became merely entries in Wikipedia together with Saturn which deserves extensive coverage in the future edition of Harvard Business Review titled "How to spend $15B and not make a single dime".

The only bright spot in Cadillac line up is Escalade which created a niche market willing to pay $100K for the badge + Escalade exclusive interior features. Less than bright spot: the same engine offered in Tahoe and Denali is extended to Escalade.

X5M would be still my choice even if Escalade were offered to me a discounted lease rate with free maintenance and a dedicated tow truck following me everywhere with a 3 year supply of every single gasket.

For all it's worth, all of us will choose to drive a car based on a convergence of many factors.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

This *should* be the car that everyone constantly says they will buy, but they won't, because their wife or girlfriend can't drive a stick.

They just need to know how to ride one, not drive one.

These cars might be promising, but I trust GM as much as I trust the Ayatollah.

[heavyD^2]

I do think Cadillac would be better served by going the Lincoln (making a bit of a comeback) route of making soft riding vehicles with plush interiors rather than investing in the luxury performance segment. This new interior is better but it still looks more Buick than true luxury and I think most domestic luxury buyers want a cruiser with a fancy interior. As good of a performance bargain these cars will be I just don't see them selling in numbers that's going to help this struggling brand.

[N54Yankee]

My wife prefers to lease cars and she’s currently in a Lincoln MKZ. her car before that was a Cadillac ATS. both cars with the 2.0t. One of the most important factors for her is a ‘cushy’ ride. I warned her prior to getting the ATS that it might be stiffer then what she wants but she got it anyway. She liked it a lot and she didn’t think it was to unforgiving for her which surprised me.

Just for the hell of it when her lease was up she decided to go with the Lincoln. She doesn’t like the wallowing ride it has compared to the sure footed Cadillac. Everything else is pretty much a tie except the Cue on the ATS which was annoying. She’s going back to Cadillac after the lease is up.

I think most buyers today appreciate a little firmer suspension over the cruise ship like characteristic handling feel of big American cars of the past. ‘Sporty’ is the new norm. I think we can thank BMW for that. IMO. I liked the ATS over the MKZ also and glad she’s dumping the MKZ.

[TheBingoBalls]

I feel the outcome is going to be the same as the ATS. I have nothing against the car, haven't yet driven it and it's just my opinion. Sometimes you have to take off the enthusiast glasses and just accept what the reality of the market is. Cadillac is not in a favourable position where they can afford not to build vehicles that appeal to the masses - by building "German killers" or modern day E46's, they might appeal to the enthusiast, they will always be playing catch-up and will always be playing from behind because the market has move on.

Do I think Cadillac should stop making these types of vehicle? No, but I feel like they're trying to become relevant by making their own version of the E90 with hopes that it will capture the same success as BMW but the market is already 2 generations ahead while Cadillac is still trying to capture a market that has clearly moved on.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I feel the outcome is going to be the same as the ATS. I have nothing against the car, haven't yet driven it and it's just my opinion. Sometimes you have to take off the enthusiast glasses and just accept what the reality of the market is. Cadillac is not in a favourable position where they can afford not to build vehicles that appeal to the masses - by building "German killers" or modern day E46's, they might appeal to the enthusiast, they will always be playing catch-up and will always be playing from behind because the market has move on.

Do I think Cadillac should stop making these types of vehicle? No, but I feel like they're trying to become relevant by making their own version of the E90 with hopes that it will capture the same success as BMW but the market is already 2 generations ahead while Cadillac is still trying to capture a market that has clearly moved on.

If my E90 died during the years the ATS was in production, I would have replaced it with an ATS. BMW after the E90, left the 3-series platform. The ATS was a far better enthusiast's car than the F30 and probably the G20. With my fleet situation as it is now, I doubt I'll replace any of the cars I have now for the next 6 years or so.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If my E90 died during the years the ATS was in production, I would have replaced it with an ATS. BMW after the E90, left the 3-series platform. The ATS was a far better enthusiast's car than the F30 and probably the G20. With my fleet situation as it is now, I doubt I'll replace any of the cars I have now for the next 6 years or so.

That's fair and I would imagine many others would feel/think the same if the timing was there but like I said, Cadillac is and will always be playing catch-up if they keep building modern day E46's.

Ultimately, everyone talks a big game but how many really do abandon BMW? Look no further than the M forums, everyone in there was like "Save the manuals!", but how many of them went DCT and now swear by it? It's nice that there are options but the Germans are in their own league at the moment in that they have cars that people want whether it's because of infotainment, luxury, aesthetics or just the badge.

[See5]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

That's fair and I would imagine many others would feel/think the same if the timing was there but like I said, Cadillac is and will always be playing catch-up if they keep building modern day E46's.

Ultimately, everyone talks a big game but how many really do abandon BMW? Look no further than the M forums, everyone in there was like "Save the manuals!", but how many of them went DCT and now swear by it? It's nice that there are options but the Germans are in their own league at the moment in that they have cars that people want whether it's because of infotainment, luxury, aesthetics or just the badge.

There's nothing E46 about the CT5 though. It's the size of the 5-series.