[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Finally, BMW Motorsports is putting their money where BMW M puts their mouth by putting a turbo race car into production.

That being said, I'm really surprised they are using a 6er. It's not exactly a small, light, or agile car.

ACO GT cars are tubular space frame chassis. It'll have virtually no commonality with the road car.

[DieGrüneHölle]

I just knew BMW had no plans to send the M4 and a S55-based engine into GT competition. This M6 GT3 is a big surprise, it is good to see BMW implement FI into their racing program. As every car on their showroom floor is FI.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

ACO GT cars are tubular space frame chassis. It'll have virtually no commonality with the road car.

ACO GTE cars are not tubular chassis. As you can see from the video you posted, the cars are built off production body shells. A steel tubing safety cage is integrated into the body. It also helps stiffen up the body quit a bit, especially the Z4. The wheelbase must stay the same as the production car as well.

Here is what the ACO homologation rules book list for GTE "Original" chassis:

"Entirely sprung part of the structure of the vehicle, to which all the suspension and/or spring loads are transmitted, extending longitudinally from the fixing of the front bumper to the fixing of the rear bumper."

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

I just knew BMW had no plans to send the M4 and a S55-based engine into GT competition. This M6 GT3 is a big surprise, it is good to see BMW implement FI into their racing program. As every car on their showroom floor is FI.

Isn't 4.0 liters the limit for turbo engines? I believe BMW will have the largest displacement turbo engine in GT3 and GTE.

[Disturbed]

What I hate most about any form of "Pro" racing is all the rules.

I wish they would take the rule book, burn it, then spead its ashes into the sea in the middle of a hurricane. Just throw in a cage, slicks, data monitoring, cameras and let them run.

The fact they have all these "rules" to level the playing field tells me that some cars are just too damn slow and need better factory development. I liked the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"

[VMRWheels]

This is gonna be AWESOME!

[vividracing]

Man... this thing is going to be so awesome. Buying a straight up race car is the dream!

-Anthony

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Isn't 4.0 liters the limit for turbo engines? I believe BMW will have the largest displacement turbo engine in GT3 and GTE.

there are exceptions to the rule, but they'll restrict the engine air intake and add weight to balance it with competition.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

ACO GTE cars are not tubular chassis. As you can see from the video you posted, the cars are built off production body shells. A steel tubing safety cage is integrated into the body. It also helps stiffen up the body quit a bit, especially the Z4. The wheelbase must stay the same as the production car as well.

Here is what the ACO homologation rules book list for GTE "Original" chassis:

"Entirely sprung part of the structure of the vehicle, to which all the suspension and/or spring loads are transmitted, extending longitudinally from the fixing of the front bumper to the fixing of the rear bumper."

yes, okay, I confused how the tubular chassis with tube cage. My point is, the race car is very different than a street car.

the closest to street car racing would be a Pirelli World Challenge or Continental Series car where they build it off a production car.

LM GTE cars is as far from production as it could be other than a few specs here and there. I've been to numerous ALMS races and seen these cars up close, there's nothing production about these cars at all aside from cosmetic parts and dimensions.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Disturbed

What I hate most about any form of "Pro" racing is all the rules.

I wish they would take the rule book, burn it, then spead its ashes into the sea in the middle of a hurricane. Just throw in a cage, slicks, data monitoring, cameras and let them run.

The fact they have all these "rules" to level the playing field tells me that some cars are just too damn slow and need better factory development. I liked the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"

yeah, while I agree with you, if this actually happened, it'll just end up being a 1 make race where everyone is driving a 911 or Corvette.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Isn't 4.0 liters the limit for turbo engines? I believe BMW will have the largest displacement turbo engine in GT3 and GTE.

Yup, 4.0L is the maximum allowed displacement. They will get a waiver like like SRT did with Viper.

[mkoesel]

I suspect the choice to go with the M6 was connected in some way to either not being granted a waiver to run the S63 in the M4, or simply not wanting to run the S63 in the M4 for marketing reasons (could diminish the S55 image). They probably determined that, even with the larger car, they would have a easier task building a competitive entry with the S63 under the hood than the smaller car with the S55. Once you strip them down to the metal, the weight difference is probably not too big anyway.

It's a bit if a disappointment since I was sort of looking forward to a P55 factory race engine. I guess a P63 will be pretty awesome too though.

[Disturbed]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

yeah, while I agree with you, if this actually happened, it'll just end up being a 1 make race where everyone is driving a 911 or Corvette.

I don't agree. I think then it would pressure ///M, AMG, SRT, Chevy, SVT, NISMO, IPL ect to make better cars. In the end, who wins with this type of racing...? That would be us. A street driven 2900lb @ 650hp with 305f / 355r would be amazing would it not?

The billions dumped into racing programs would really then be put to good use for selling the cars that support racing...that then in turn support the race cars. I can't see why this wouldn't be a win:win:win for the sport, auto industry and consumers.

Didn't meant to start a My bad.

[M3 Esq]

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

yeah, while I agree with you, if this actually happened, it'll just end up being a 1 make race where everyone is driving a 911 or Corvette.

This. Sums it up perfectly.

Originally Posted by Disturbed

I don't agree. I think then it would pressure ///M, AMG, SRT, Chevy, SVT, NISMO, IPL ect to make better cars. In the end, who wins with this type of racing...? That would be us. A street driven 2900lb @ 650hp with 305f / 355r would be amazing would it not?

The billions dumped into racing programs would really then be put to good use for selling the cars that support racing...that then in turn support the race cars. I can't see why this wouldn't be a win:win:win for the sport, auto industry and consumers.

Didn't meant to start a My bad.

Take that weight, add 200 lbs, take off 30 hp, and swap the tires to 245/325 and you have a GT2 RS.

If you look at the history of ALMS GT/GT2 class, it was overwhelmingly dominated by Porsche. Of the 15 seasons they ran, Porsche won 12 of them and IIRC 9 of the first 11 seasons. They have by far the most overall wins in that series and in race history too.

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

The Turner M6 was a touring car, which meant they had to use a M6 road car to build the race car. All cars in the Continental Series (and Pirelli World Challenge) are built that way.

In this case,

GTLM/GTE/GTD cars are built from the ground level up as a race car and they finish it off by molding a body of a street car over the build, resulting in the race car having almost no commonality with the actual street car.

So while the new M6 GTLM/GTE will have growing pains on the race track, I suspect they will be very competitive as Tudor and European LeMans/WEC rules allow for balance of power adjustments during the race season. A good measuring stick would be how the new Viper GTE is performing in Tudor this year (year 3), and how the old M3 GTS performed in its final year.

Also this year Porsche started using the 991 generation of GTE/GT3/GTLM cars and the are stinking it up....but I suspect they will be very good next year after 1 year of learning and on the track development.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LM_GTE

Here's an example, the race car chassis , suspension, and engines are all customized.

here's how a Z4 GTE/GT3/GTLM is built:

Not sure how Porsche has been stinking it up considering they just won the inaugural season of GT Le Mans, and also won GT Daytona as well.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

It's a shame they decided to pick the M6 given the road car is a pig at 4000+ lbs.

+1.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Disturbed

I don't agree. I think then it would pressure ///M, AMG, SRT, Chevy, SVT, NISMO, IPL ect to make better cars. In the end, who wins with this type of racing...? That would be us. A street driven 2900lb @ 650hp with 305f / 355r would be amazing would it not?

The billions dumped into racing programs would really then be put to good use for selling the cars that support racing...that then in turn support the race cars. I can't see why this wouldn't be a win:win:win for the sport, auto industry and consumers.

Didn't meant to start a My bad.

Simple, they'd just build homologation specials that no-one could afford. They'd still spend the money, in fact more probably, because there would be less limitations, sell all the cars to Arabs, then go racing, and you'd be no closer to the car you wanted - and lots of Americans would complain because there'd be no way they'd sell them in the US, and they'd probably have 5000 mile service intervals because they'd be built to racing tolerances (i.e. designed to be rebuilt every few hundred miles)

Plus the racing would be a terrible procession every race, and awfully expensive for private teams. Everything would probably also go AWD, since when AWD cars enter close to production series they tend to wipe the floor with everyone! RS5's vs M3's in the V8 superstars series was a joke, even with lots of ballast, big air restrictors and a mandated increased ride-height the Audi's could still drive around the outside of the E92 M3's and C63 AMG's --- and that was in the dry.

[BMW269]

M6 CSL would be nice.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Not sure how Porsche has been stinking it up considering they just won the inaugural season of GT Le Mans, and also won GT Daytona as well.

Porsche runs over half the cars in the entire GTD class and still barely won the manufacturer title, they also had the most cars in GTLM. SRT won GTLM drivers and team, so did the single Turner BMW that dominated the rest of the field.

But anyways they aren't "stinking it up", that's true. The 911's in GTLM were quite competitive this year.

[runningthingz]

How much!?

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

ACO GT cars are tubular space frame chassis. It'll have virtually no commonality with the road car.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect there.

[Sebringjetta]

this would be the only FI car in the TUDOR GTLM class..hmmm wonder how this would be ok???

also this is strange as during the PETIT LE MANS race the director for BMW MOTORSPORTS stated for sure they plan on runing next season with the same z4m ...