[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

Merc' is not winning because of its engine my friend.. actually until this year long straights was a nightmare for Merc's cause they were down on power.. even if there is a "knowing" for hybrid era.. been 7 years now.. 7th turbo season.. 6-7 year is a century for F1 but other teams still struggle.. chassis and engine wise.. and its already very close to its efficiency limits but other teams still suck.. Merc' is the one still pushing.. dont tell me money my friend cause its not.. Ferrari, Renault, Honda, Red Bull has money as well.. and if you still think its the engine.. Racing Points or Williams didnt win a race with the same engine.. McLaren will have Merc' engine as well.. so this year 30% of the grid and next year 40% of grid will have the same engine.. answer is very simple.. as a team Merc' is a great team.. working in harmony.. we re watching the best team ever been together in these years.. and i enjoy each race.. and for something is really really good.. not everyone bow to that.. this all i see on this topic..

Merc' is not the only pushing things with talented people.. recently they re running the best social media as well.. you can have insights of anything you want about Merc'.. and they dont celebrate after each race win for many years now.. they always work hard.. and they deserve this whatever people say.. they are really really good at this as a whole..

Merc' is not winning because of its engine ?
Can you tell me mate , why the Mercs are 17 km/h faster on the straights ?
Even the F1 grandma (Bottas) can win in a Merc with 0 racecraft...

And why last year the Ferrari's were 21 km/ faster than the Mercs ?
Not the engine ..Are you serious ? Mate give me a break !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Probably Alb's thank you to him for taking him off in Austria

The MIB don't know what racecraft is . They are just cruising to the victory !
They just sit in the car . While the Wolffdude is pushing on the power buttons hidden behind the pitwall...

Even HAM's infraction points disappeared like snow in the sun !

[5.M0NSTER]

Another platinum fact:

Max can have any number he wants. And still will be the perfect 3rd place runner up. Born for racing, into 3rd place.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Not VER only...

Didn’t realize you were able to make it that day! What feeling of honor and accomplishment it must have been to flick off one of the most accomplished champs of all time. We’re you proud?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The MIB don't know what racecraft is . They are just cruising to the victory !
They just sit in the car . While the Wolffdude is pushing on the power buttons hidden behind the pitwall...

Even HAM's infraction points disappeared like snow in the sun !

I watched a vid of Wolff's come uppence when Frank Williams dragged him into F1..After he joined dark side it was all innocent sweet music of how he was educated at school and 'miraculously' transformed them into a winning team.
I wonder if turning hidden knobs up and down was part of the amazing expertise he has demonstrated.
They say money talks and indeed it's handy when HAM gets close to a ban.

[Fender150]

Haters gonna hate, always. Ill watch you guys enjoy his 7th deserved Wdc. Also sidenote, max will dnf next sunday

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Fender150

Haters gonna hate, always. Ill watch you guys enjoy his 7th deserved Wdc. Also sidenote, max will dnf next sunday

No way mate . This is how the Eifel will look like !

[M5Rick]

^ Woohoo!

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The MIB don't know what racecraft is . They are just cruising to the victory !
They just sit in the car . While the Wolffdude is pushing on the power buttons hidden behind the pitwall...

Even HAM's infraction points disappeared like snow in the sun !

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

I watched a vid of Wolff's come uppence when Frank Williams dragged him into F1..After he joined dark side it was all innocent sweet music of how he was educated at school and 'miraculously' transformed them into a winning team.
I wonder if turning hidden knobs up and down was part of the amazing expertise he has demonstrated.
They say money talks and indeed it's handy when HAM gets close to a ban.

I must confess that I'm a little disappointed in both of you. I thought you were both knowledgeable fans of F1.

To say that anyone can sit in the Mercedes and win and it doesn't require race craft is like saying anyone can sit in an F22 and get the best performance out of the aircraft. It's just silly.

I'm sorry your fav driver is getting trounced but he has had 2 chances to sit next to Lewis and decided not to do so both times: When he first came into the sport and again in 2017 when ROS left. He and his father decide that it wouldn't be good for his career to race alongside Lewis at that time.

And while Max is an amazing driver, he has had exactly ONE championship level win that was demonstrable of his ability to drive to a championship over a season. One. And that was this season.

Now onto the Merc being the fastest in a straight line...it is not. Look at the stop speeds at Spa, Silverstone, and Monza. The Merc is developed and especially tuned for medium, medium-high, and high-speed corners. That is why it cannot pass many cars even with DRS. This is also why HAM is able to get so much out of the car because he excels in turns of that type more than any other driver. And please never bring up race craft. Go back and watch the 2006 GP 2 season. It was a clinic.

Lewis Hamilton earned his right into that seat and to say otherwise is really disappointing...especially coming from 2 people who say they are racing fans.

Cheers-mk

[M5Rick]

^ I'm sure I'm more a fan than you give credit for and I do give praise where it's due. If it was as clear cut as you perceive then indeed it would be more shall we say fair.
Again I go back to what I've been saying all along largely ignored that Merc have always had the 2-3 odd years advantage with the hybrid in pace and tractability as they knew it was coming while the others didn't.
In the meantime in the quest for fairness I think it's reasonable to make suggestions to make the racing more competitive for others rather than having a 'one man show' (which has been going on for far too long) most of the time with an obviously subserviant teammate making the racing for HAM a cakewalk.
Thanks.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

^ I'm sure I'm more a fan than you give credit for and I do give praise where it's due. If it was as clear cut as you perceive then indeed it would be more shall we say fair.
Again I go back to what I've been saying all along largely ignored that Merc have always had the 2-3 odd years advantage with the hybrid in pace and tractability as they knew it was coming while the others didn't.
In the meantime in the quest for fairness I think it's reasonable to make suggestions to make the racing more competitive for others rather than having a 'one man show' (which has been going on for far too long) most of the time with an obviously subserviant teammate making the racing for HAM a cakewalk.
Thanks.

Formula One is the ultimate meritocracy. You build a fast car and combine it with a good driver and you win races. Combine a fast car with a great driver and you have dominance. This isn't the fault of HAM and Mercedes any more than it is the fault of the valedictorian of a class that someone flunked out of school. This is faulty reasoning.

And remember, without HAM, Ferrari wins the WDC and WCC in 2017 and 2018. The prizes were there for the taking with Mercedes behind much of the season.

Why don't you spend time savaging Red Bull, Christian Horner, Helmut Marko, Adrian Newey and Dieter Mateschitz about their lack of vision, horrible performance, and inability to manage drivers? Your time would be better spent trying to IMPROVE their performance rather than tearing those down who are successful.

Edit: The reason for the performance of the Mercedes engine being so extreme compared to the others is that they employed a fundamentally different turbocharger configuration which was radical and non-traditional. Please show me, with proof, that they had a 2-3 year head start.

[Fender150]

Yes, proof indeed, instead of spreading baseless rumours.
Their engineers are brilliant and deserve credit.
The team at the point was one of only 2, completely owned and backed by the manufacturer, that makes a huge difference. As mentioned above, the approach to design was different and unorthodox. Educate yourself:

The engine crew came up with an innovative plan: putting the turbo compressor at one end of the engine and the turbine at the other, rather than together.

Knowing of this plan, the car designers then knew the gearbox could be repositioned to improve balance, and the coolers could be smaller to enable tighter bodywork. The Mercedes customer teams — Williams and Force India — received the same engine, but not before they had already committed to a car design which could not fully exploit it

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Fender150

Yes, proof indeed, instead of spreading baseless rumours.
Their engineers are brilliant and deserve credit.
The team at the point was one of only 2, completely owned and backed by the manufacturer, that makes a huge difference. As mentioned above, the approach to design was different and unorthodox. Educate yourself:

The engine crew came up with an innovative plan: putting the turbo compressor at one end of the engine and the turbine at the other, rather than together.

Knowing of this plan, the car designers then knew the gearbox could be repositioned to improve balance, and the coolers could be smaller to enable tighter bodywork. The Mercedes customer teams — Williams and Force India — received the same engine, but not before they had already committed to a car design which could not fully exploit it

Well said!!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Formula One is the ultimate meritocracy. You build a fast car and combine it with a good driver and you win races. Combine a fast car with a great driver and you have dominance. This isn't the fault of HAM and Mercedes any more than it is the fault of the valedictorian of a class that someone flunked out of school. This is faulty reasoning.

And remember, without HAM, Ferrari wins the WDC and WCC in 2017 and 2018. The prizes were there for the taking with Mercedes behind much of the season.

Why don't you spend time savaging Red Bull, Christian Horner, Helmut Marko, Adrian Newey and Dieter Mateschitz about their lack of vision, horrible performance, and inability to manage drivers? Your time would be better spent trying to IMPROVE their performance rather than tearing those down who are successful.

Edit: The reason for the performance of the Mercedes engine being so extreme compared to the others is that they employed a fundamentally different turbocharger configuration which was radical and non-traditional. Please show me, with proof, that they had a 2-3 year head start.

In the lull that led up to the hybrids Merc had plenty of time to concoct a winning PU together with turbo split at each end of the engine connected by a shaft to SUIT THE HYBRID so what do I need to provide proof of exactly and if I needed to ridicule RB then wouldn't that be true for the other eight teams also?
RB manage their drivers amicably so I don't see your point where is the inability to manage their drivers.Horner is a fair and honest manager whose team are primed for success while at Merc they've already had it MADE with huge step for them since around 2010 adding mods already on shelves to achieve their increase their top speed at will.The facts are there without needing proof.
You enjoy your day now.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

In the lull that led up to the hybrids Merc had plenty of time to concoct a winning PU together with turbo split at each end of the engine connected by a shaft to SUIT THE HYBRID so what do I need to provide proof of exactly and if I needed to ridicule RB then wouldn't that be true for the other eight teams also?
RB manage their drivers amicably so I don't see your point where is the inability to manage their drivers.Horner is a fair and honest manager whose team are primed for success while at Merc they've already had it MADE with huge step for them since around 2010 adding mods already on shelves to achieve their increase their top speed at will.The facts are there without needing proof.
You enjoy your day now.

Everyone else had the same chance. Sorry their R and D wasn't up to snuff. Not really on ridiculing the other teams...only the Fezza, Renault, and Honda runners. They all had the same opportunity. You called out the Mercedes PU and I responded exactly to that.

RB don't manage their drivers amicably. VET was allowed to run roughshod over WEB and I would imagine that would be the same case if ALB would start to challenge VER. Their treatment of GAS last year of firing him less than a week of saying they absolutely supported him was cringe-worthy. This is why they are putting out one press release after another with regard to ALB. Red Bull could be a case study in bad personnel management. Additionally, the treatment of their partners has made them a pariah with PU manufacturers. Neither Mercedes or Fezza would go near them now. They proactively burn bridges because they talk too much.

I've said it to my local F1 friends and I'll say it here: Their best bet is the buy the IP of Honda and continue development with their current PU and create a corporate structure similar to Mercedes or outright purchase Cosworth who also have a homologated F1 PU that no one elected to go with. If I were them, I'd choose the former rather than the latter as it would mean a smooth transition, somewhat similar to Brawn from Honda.

Great conversation!
Cheers!!
-mk

[M5Rick]

^ ''Not bad for a number 2'' still rings in the ears from Webby. I wouldn't say there was anything wrong with management then in the VET/WEB time when drivers are really competing against each other and not controlled like at Merc NOW,there was not a lot Horner could do to stand in the way without being between a rock and a hard place! Come on you can't believe that both 77 and 44 are given free rein with same power output and Lauda told Montezemolo in confidence way back in 2007 yes 2007 that Merc were already THEN working on the hybrid PU.

[Fender150]

Mercedes was only an engine supplier until they bought the honda-brawn team. If anyone is likely to know plans first and get a heads up, the funny heads up of 7 years you mention lol, that would be FERRARI.

Again presenting zero proof of anything, and Fyi, bottas can not match Hams sector times to 0.01 if he is running less power sorry to break it to you

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Fender150

Mercedes was only an engine supplier until they bought the honda-brawn team. If anyone is likely to know plans first and get a heads up, the funny heads up of 7 years you mention lol, that would be FERRARI.

Again presenting zero proof of anything, and Fyi, bottas can not match Hams sector times to 0.01 if he is running less power sorry to break it to you

Well one thing, we can agree to disagree

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Well one thing, we can agree to disagree

My friend , actually there's more involved in this latest discussion regarding the power of the Mercs PU .
It's regarding the Mercs ERS-system : Allied to the combustion engine are two hybrid systems, one recovered kinetic energy of the car under braking (ERS-K) and another recovers the kinetic energy of the turbo charger, although in typical confusing F1 parlance, this is a heat recovery and the moniker applied is H for eat, so this is termed ERS-H.

MGU is a permanent-magnet brushless AC electric motor. It will both power the car as it deploys the stored energy, or it can work as a generator to put energy back into the battery. The battery is a pack of Li-ion cells, that are capable of rapidly deploying or storing lots of energy to the MGU. In between these two is the Control Electronic unit, which converts the AC electric of the MGU to the DC of the battery.

In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
From what we know the Benz has an huge advantage in the F1-FE regarding the electric battery power system .
This latest advanced electric technology is also used in the Mercs F1 PU's .In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
But by the latest observations It's for sure that the Mercs can push the ERS power stronger through the same lap .
By this technology the Benz can store more electric power in the advanced storage of the battery .
In generator mode the ERS-H can be used in several ways; some simple, others more complex and some probably still secret.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Yes this was demonstrated by the Mercs holding top speed longer on Sochi straight with RB losing time as reported by Max saying losing 6/10 sec per lap.

ERS has nothing to do with top speed but, rather, acceleration. This is why they harvest at the end of the straight.

The reduction in top speed at the end of the straight has to do with harvesting and not Vmax.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

ERS has nothing to do with top speed but, rather, acceleration. This is why they harvest at the end of the straight.

The reduction in top speed at the end of the straight has to do with harvesting and not Vmax.

Sochi benefited BOT and the RB system wasn't being harvested as much from the lack of braking ers/kers according to MV hence the 6/10 sec loss per lap.

[yco]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Merc' is not winning because of its engine ?
Can you tell me mate , why the Mercs are 17 km/h faster on the straights ?
Even the F1 grandma (Bottas) can win in a Merc with 0 racecraft...

And why last year the Ferrari's were 21 km/ faster than the Mercs ?
Not the engine ..Are you serious ? Mate give me a break !

mate Merc' won races up until this year without being the fastest on the straights.. and they re still not the fastest they think more about the corners.. car is simply grippy.. its efficient.. and as i ve said.. if engine only is a reason Merc' to win.. why Racing Point or Williams cant win races still.. cause Merc'.. is.. a.. great.. team.. working in harmony.. even someone you follow closely Horner said this as well.. Merc' is like a big machine working in harmony..

and btw.. anything Merc' uses is being inspected 2-3 times recently.. just for trying to find something illegal on the car.. but its all legal.. if engineering is better sorry but thats why teams compete with each other and they re in F1..

If Red Bull having problems with Honda, if Ferrari were doing secret stuff with its engine and has to give up on that.. but Merc' doesnt stumble things normally goes better for Merc's.. and it creates a gap.. which what we re watching this year.. wait for next year.. McLarens will come into play.. Red Bull wont be that relaxed like now on the grid for being 2nd.. then probably here there ll be some blames on McLaren as well.. we ll see time flies mate..

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Sochi benefited BOT and the RB system wasn't being harvested as much from the lack of braking ers/kers according to MV hence the 6/10 sec loss per lap.

so if Red Bull's systems are not good enough.. its Merc's fault my friend?