[GraphiteE93]

Most japanese cars lack good steering feel in my opinion....the whole car just feels too soft compared to a euro automobile

[Year's_End]

It's a Lexus and a hippie car all in one...

[ed-320d]

Originally Posted by m8s2l

Oky Mr.BMW fanboy.

BMW fanboy like you, whos in denial and utterly biased, give bad reputation to BMW community...

Completely agree. Athough we are in BMW forum we need not to be bias against other brands. IMO Lexus is a great car, but I dont see the potential of hybrid engine over diesel.

[ed-320d]

Originally Posted by Zirenz2006

The front of the Camry is vile. The rear of it is a rip off of the 5 series tail lights and the raised trunk lid of the 7 series. Too bad they have to steal others designs.

What about the all new 2009 E class rip off Lexus GS's design, E90 rip off Daewoo Lanos taillight, BMW 3 series e46 3door hatch rip off Lexus IS styled altezza tail lights.

The manufacturers always rip off each other where they see fit. New design of suspension or safety measures may forced them into making similar design.

[Year's_End]

Oh, I need to clarify that even though my username states "loyalist", I'm by no means a fanboy (maybe a little when it comes to the 3 series and it's competitors though...). However, I still hold a large amount of prejudice against Lexus. I just hate them. I don't know why.

[BK]

Speaking of rip-offs, here's a Lexus and BMW rip-off by Hyundai for those who haven't seen it: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...rticleId=97785

[Fester]

new lexus steering doesn't have any feedback at all-pretty bland and boring!

[M3ti Compact]

Originally Posted by adc

But I think you don't understand the real reason people buy such cars. In 95% of the cases, it's status. And as far as status goes, Lexus is at the bottom of the rung (we're not discussing technical merits here).


On top of this, the greatest percentage of these barges are self-driven, not chauffeur-driven. In this category, I understand the S class and 7 series score much better than the Lexus.


And if it were my money, I'd get an S8.

What you talking about? Lexus is at the top of the game, the most recent sales reports says that Lexus sells more LS's than BMW does 7-Series and Mercedes does S-Classes combined.

Lexus is the top of all imaginable reliability and dependability charts.

Lexus is top of all customer satifaction surveys.

True, very true, Lexus is not a flashy car- and that is exactly what customers of affluence and maturity- those who most importantly can afford these cars want. They could care less who's got the most horsepower, or who's got the biggest rims, who's got the most road feel or who's got the most chrome. All they what is a well built, reliable, relaxing car which they can jump in at the end of a long day, have their own quiet space, listen to a good CD, and waft their way home in quiet comfort and incognito.

[adc]

Originally Posted by M3ti Compact

What you talking about? Lexus is at the top of the game, the most recent sales reports says that Lexus sells more LS's than BMW does 7-Series and Mercedes does S-Classes combined.

According to JD Power:

Originally Posted by JD Power

The Lincoln Town Car paces this segment, according to the J.D. Power and Associates Sales Report,SM with 47,122 sales in calendar-year 2005—nearly twice as many sales as its next closest competitor. Next was the Lexus LS (26,043 sales in 2005), followed, in an exceptionally tight race, by the BMW 7 Series (18,165) and the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (18,035). Others in the category include the Jaguar XJ, Infiniti Q45, and Volkswagen Phaeton. Joining this category for model-year 2006 is the Cadillac DTS.

Asides from the fact that you are completely wrong regarding the sales numbers, both you and JD Power are wrong about the segment these cars play in.

That segment does not include the Lincoln Town Car for sure - nobody cross-shops a Town Car and an S class really. And because of the status thing, and ironically also because of the significantly lower price - the Lexus LS does not truly play in the same league as the 7 series or the S class.

Oh sure, there is some overlap - but the brand is just not perceived as prestigious enough.



Or let me put it this way: Do you truly aspire to own an LS someday, when you "grow up"? I certainly don't.

[lyndon_h]

I had a chance to drive the LS and thought that it was a very well excuted luxury car with a a good feel and decent handling for its size. As much as i wanted to dislike it for being a Lexus "grandpa cruiser", i couldnt. It is is a great car and Lexus should be applauded for bringing their A game.

[adc]

Originally Posted by m8s2l

lol...I bet thats actually true. He knows that Japanese cars has better value cars than BMW in same class or price range.

So what is this value? For me, a car has absolutely no value whatsoever if it doesn't drive at least as well as a BMW. I place such a great value on this, that I am prepared to spend the extra $5k or $10k to get it - and never for even the shortest moment regret the purchase.

So if you value (that word again) a particular mix of sportiness, refinement and comfort - there really isn't any other game in town. If you value a different mix of these ingredients, then it's very possible that one of the Japanese competitors embodies them to a greater degree and is the better choice.

But think about this - why is the competition always targeting the 3 series and not the other way around? Why do they try to imitate the driving feel, performance envelope and even the bad styling?


If you are just referring to monetary value for the amount of goods delivered, the current crop of Hyundays has everything else beat, including the Japanese cars.

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by adc

According to JD Power:



Asides from the fact that you are completely wrong regarding the sales numbers, both you and JD Power are wrong about the segment these cars play in.

That segment does not include the Lincoln Town Car for sure - nobody cross-shops a Town Car and an S class really. And because of the status thing, and ironically also because of the significantly lower price - the Lexus LS does not truly play in the same league as the 7 series or the S class.

Oh sure, there is some overlap - but the brand is just not perceived as prestigious enough.



Or let me put it this way: Do you truly aspire to own an LS someday, when you "grow up"? I certainly don't.

Just out of curiosity, do you have figures for 2006? I'd be interested in knowing how the numbers change from year to year, with newer models being released and others aging...

I have to disagree with you that the LS does not play in the "same league" as the 7 series or S class. Like it or not, the LS is a competitor to the German brands. It might not slamom quite as fast, but it provides most of the features and better reliability. You can argue that Lexus does not have the same luxury perception as BMW or MB, but the truth of that argument is fading each year.

[JSpira]

I've driven three Lexi recently, the hybrid sedan, the hybrid SUV and the LS.

The hybrid sedan is fast. Doesn't handle but it's fast and petrol usage is amazing. So is the CVT - very smooth.

Lexus sent over the SUV for a week - I don't normally drive an SUV but it was fun driving one that claimed to be getting 60 mpg most of the time (it wasn't doing quite that well but still...)

The electronics, specifically telematics, in the Lexi were horrible to use. Most of the functionality is locked out when the vehicle is in motion and this is because using it really takes your attention away from driving. {I have a Jaguar XK right now - also with touchscreen which works while driving but I think it's dangerous to do more than one or two touches while driving).

The Lexus voice response was abysmal. It didn't dial one phone number correctly and the Bluetooth system doesn't transfer over the phonebook.

So it's not only handling but they need a lot of improvement in this area as well.

[adc]

Originally Posted by lyndon_h

Just out of curiosity, do you have figures for 2006? I'd be interested in knowing how the numbers change from year to year, with newer models being released and others aging...

I'd be interested too, but unfortunately couldn't find those numbers on the JD Power site. I'll try a wider google search, maybe some other publication has these numbers...

I have to disagree with you that the LS does not play in the "same league" as the 7 series or S class. Like it or not, the LS is a competitor to the German brands. It might not slamom quite as fast, but it provides most of the features and better reliability. You can argue that Lexus does not have the same luxury perception as BMW or MB, but the truth of that argument is fading each year.

It's ok to disagree, that's what we do on these boards.

But my point is that these cars compete only on paper. In real life, these are aspirational cars - people buy them because they're desirable and expensive (which guarantees some sort of exclusivity). A Lexus LS just doesn't have the same kind of appeal - bragging at the country club (or wherever these people congregate), you just cannot hope to elicit admiration when you confess to buying a Lexus.

Oh, it may be an excellent automobile - it lacks that extra spunk, or character, or a bigger brother that current owners can aspire to - whatever it is that makes people buy a 7 series or an S class despite the huge price difference.

Otherwise, don't you think they'd pretty much own this market? The fact that they don't speaks volumes to me...


Not that I really care. I simply fail to foresee any circumstances in which I'll own a car like this.

[M3ti Compact]

Originally Posted by adc

According to JD Power:



Asides from the fact that you are completely wrong regarding the sales numbers, both you and JD Power are wrong about the segment these cars play in.

That segment does not include the Lincoln Town Car for sure - nobody cross-shops a Town Car and an S class really. And because of the status thing, and ironically also because of the significantly lower price - the Lexus LS does not truly play in the same league as the 7 series or the S class.

Oh sure, there is some overlap - but the brand is just not perceived as prestigious enough.



Or let me put it this way: Do you truly aspire to own an LS someday, when you "grow up"? I certainly don't.

I said RECENT sales figures- try March '07- which would include the new LS as well as the new S class, not old JD power ones based on the old models.

Eh, either way you slice it, using the old model or the new one, Lexus is still the top dog, the leader- and I have absolutely no problem aspiring to own the best of the best.

[BK]

Lincoln Town Car probably "paces this segment" because it is sold as a fleet vehicle (limos for airport rides and corporate vehicles) in the US. I wonder if JD Power took that into account.

[Javier]

Originally Posted by purplewidow

yeah 96k for a car that looks lika a toyota camry and basically is just all jazzed up...i woould much much rather have a 750 or an s550 merc anyday of the week over that japcrap!!!!

Don't say Jap crap, that lexus is one fine car, almost everything about it is great.

I do prefer a BMW 750 or Merc S550 over it anyday, but in no way is it crap

[krazykanuck]

Originally Posted by Javier

Don't say Jap crap, that lexus is one fine car, almost everything about it is great.

I do prefer a BMW 750 or Merc S550 over it anyday, but in no way is it crap

Agreed. Some people in here give BMW owners a bad name with other car fans because many are prejudiced against Lexus without good reason. I am by no means a fanboy...I personally prefer German cars anyway.

I can appreciate the new LS for its crazy level of technology for the price, but it has no real soul or IMO, the brand power the German flagships still have. The LS is a great car, just not for some people who prefer better handling, but is a better car for those who just want a comfortable big car.

[adc]

Originally Posted by M3ti Compact

I said RECENT sales figures- try March '07- which would include the new LS as well as the new S class, not old JD power ones based on the old models.

Linky no worky.

Eh, either way you slice it, using the old model or the new one, Lexus is still the top dog, the leader- and I have absolutely no problem aspiring to own the best of the best.

Well no, it appears the Lincoln Town Car is top dog. Good luck aspiring to "the best"...

[M3ti Compact]

Congratulations to the Lexus LS460 for winning the 2007 World Car of the Year award.

http://www.wcoty.com/2007/